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Author Topic: 9900 Ink Switch Cleanings  (Read 4738 times)

mcmorrison

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9900 Ink Switch Cleanings
« on: August 25, 2009, 06:27:03 pm »

Hello,

I have a new 9900 and am working through its various idiosyncrasies.

I have ANC off, and though I have "clogs" most days, they are quickly resolved by service mode cleans. However, it seems that every time I do an MK - PK ink switch, it will go into a cleaning cycle before printing.

Today was a typical scenario: turn the printer on; print nozzle pattern; nozzles check OK; print a print; switch inks (from button on control panel); ask to print another nozzle pattern; printer initiates a cleaning (20+ mls) before it will print the nozzle pattern; printer says nozzle clean failed, try again?; I answer "no"; do a nozzle check—all nozzles good.

Are any others having this experience?

Has anyone figured out how to disable this ink-switch ANC, or to switch inks without it?

Thanks!

Michael Morrison
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mikev1

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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 11:23:46 pm »

Quote from: mcmorrison
Hello,

I have a new 9900 and am working through its various idiosyncrasies.

I have ANC off, and though I have "clogs" most days, they are quickly resolved by service mode cleans. However, it seems that every time I do an MK - PK ink switch, it will go into a cleaning cycle before printing.

Today was a typical scenario: turn the printer on; print nozzle pattern; nozzles check OK; print a print; switch inks (from button on control panel); ask to print another nozzle pattern; printer initiates a cleaning (20+ mls) before it will print the nozzle pattern; printer says nozzle clean failed, try again?; I answer "no"; do a nozzle check—all nozzles good.

Are any others having this experience?

Has anyone figured out how to disable this ink-switch ANC, or to switch inks without it?

Thanks!

Michael Morrison

Hello, I have this same issue.  I spoke with Epson and there is no way to disable this (though I did get two different answers so who knows).  The printer does a check and possibly a clean after a switch.  At first I thought the printer was just crazy but now I believe that there is something happening during the switching process that is causing a clog or air bubbles.  

How do I know this?  After each switch I've been powering down and then restarting in service mode.  I do a CL1 clean on 1 color pair and then restart the printer in normal mode.  I first tried this to see if I could avoid the check and cleaning plus I'm not sure if you can do a nozzle check from service mode.  It worked.  Printing a nozzle check pattern after indeed showed that their were clogs in some of the lines.  Going back into service mode and doing a CL1 clean on the affected lines solved the problems and uses a heck of a lot less ink.  I've replicated this several times.

Talking to Epson is what tipped me off that this might be happening as the person I was talking to kind of gave me the impression that this isn't an uncommon problem.  He used a phrase like "how do you know the printer isn't dropping a line or clogging during the switching process" in response to my initial concern that the printer just ran the cleaning whenever it felt like it or was overly aggresive in triggering it.

I need to talk to Epson again as this can't be within spec as it is happening around 80% of the time for me.  I suggest you give them a call as well.  Please let me know what you hear.  As with anything your answer may depend on who you talk to, how knowledgeable they are, and how motivated they are to dig deeper than the phone script they work off of.  I'm going to ask for a tech to come visit.

Mike
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pindman

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9900 Ink Switch Cleanings
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 11:58:51 pm »

My 9900 did the same thing.  It's supposed to self-clean when changing inks, but shouldn't use more than 3 mL of ink.  (Mine used 60-80 mL !!!)   After multiple discussions with tech support (most of the reps were totally clueless) and going up the ladder to s suprevisor, they shipped me some new parts.  This was the same time the latest firmware update was available, and since installing the firmware it's not used much ink with the self-clean.  

I'd suggest that you be sure you have the latest firmware.  Also, it is reasonable to ask them to ship you a couple of new ink cartridges to replace the wasted ink.

Paul
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Wayne Fox

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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 01:28:28 am »

Quote from: mcmorrison
I have ANC off, and though I have "clogs" most days, they are quickly resolved by service mode cleans. However, it seems that every time I do an MK - PK ink switch, it will go into a cleaning cycle before printing.

Today was a typical scenario: turn the printer on; print nozzle pattern; nozzles check OK; print a print; switch inks (from button on control panel); ask to print another nozzle pattern; printer initiates a cleaning (20+ mls) before it will print the nozzle pattern; printer says nozzle clean failed, try again?; I answer "no"; do a nozzle check—all nozzles good.

Yes, ANC off only affects whether the printer checks before printing a print.  It has no other affect on any other nozzle checks, be it in normal cleaning cycles or an ink swap.

I've seen some others mention that an ink switch almost always causes a cleaning, which is unfortunate since ink switching is supposed to be economical.  If indeed the process is prone to air bubbles or other failed nozzles this would be frustrating, since it isn't delivering what it is promoted to do.  However, in your case the report of a failed nozzle clean, followed by printing a good nozzle check indicates a defect in the auto nozzle circuitry.  I would ask Epson to fix it.  My ANC has been working flawlessly in this second printer .. I have it set to check every print and it's only done one clean.  I also do single channel cleans in regular mode since I'm pretty confident the ANC check won't falsely trigger a full head clean.  So far only 2 of those have been necessary but it worked both times.
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mcmorrison

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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2009, 11:45:18 am »

Hello,

Thanks so much for the input on this, it is quite helpful.

I'll make a few more switches watching carefully for evidence of problematic ANC, and then call Epson. . .

Thanks,

Michael
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Wayne Fox

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« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2009, 02:06:22 pm »

One other thing I forgot to mention ... you can switch blacks while in service mode by simply pressing the ink swap button.

I believe this bypasses a nozzle check.  I've been out of the office for over three weeks, so I just fired up my 7900 in service mode and made the round trip ... PK->MK->PK in service mode.  No cleaning.  I then restarted the printer in service mode and printed a nozzle check.  I have had my ANC enabled for all prints for quite some time, and the ANC check for the nozzle pattern print found clogs and initiated a clean.  I'm guessing I had a few clogs to start with, but the black switch in service mode bypasses the nozzle check.  Just a guess but if so it appears you can completely bypass all automatic cleaning cycles by disabling ANC, and doing all cleans and ink swaps in service mode.

EDIT:  My printer cleaned until I received the error message .. 1st time this has happened. The clean consumed 64.22 ml of ink.   A nozzle check showed a substantial number of missing nozzles in PK only (which means the nozzle check was accurately reporting failed nozzles).  Oddly a service mode CL1 of that channel completely cleared the PK using only .41ml of PK ink .. yet multiple attempts before that failed (including using 18.22 ml of PK).

So it is plausible that switching inks actually causes failed nozzles (Probably not actual clogs).  Also it is curious that very aggressive cleans failed when a very minor clean succeeded ... perhaps the aggressive cleans cause problems much like ink switching?

I don't use MK much, but when I do I will probably start in service mode, switch inks and then send a nozzle check to the printer from the computer which appears to bypass ANC.  If the ink switch caused problems I can then clean just the affected channels in service mode, most likely using a CL1 and only consuming a very small amount of ink.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 02:57:31 pm by Wayne Fox »
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Ryan Grayley

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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2009, 02:45:58 pm »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
One other thing I forgot to mention ... you can switch blacks while in service mode by simply pressing the ink swap button.

I believe this bypasses a nozzle check.  I've been out of the office for over three weeks, so I just fired up my 7900 in service mode and made the round trip ... PK->MK->PK in service mode.  No cleaning.  I then restarted the printer in service mode and printed a nozzle check.  I have had my ANC enabled for all prints for quite some time, and the ANC check for the nozzle pattern print found clogs and initiated a clean.  I'm guessing I had a few clogs to start with, but the black switch in service mode bypasses the nozzle check.  Just a guess but if so it appears you can completely bypass all automatic cleaning cycles by disabling ANC, and doing all cleans and ink swaps in service mode.

Hmm, your findings are very interesting.

Earlier today I ran a print job with my 7900 in Service Mode and it seemed fine. Just to be doubly sure, I then restarted the printer in Normal mode and reran an A4 size version of the print. Identical.

So, I am wondering if there any disadvantages to running the 7900 in Service Mode all the time? There seem to be a lot of good reasons for doing this...
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 02:46:40 pm by Ionaca »
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Ryan Grayley BA IEng MIET ARPS
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LeiMeng

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9900 Ink Switch Cleanings
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2009, 06:15:35 pm »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
One other thing I forgot to mention ... you can switch blacks while in service mode by simply pressing the ink swap button.

I believe this bypasses a nozzle check.  I've been out of the office for over three weeks, so I just fired up my 7900 in service mode and made the round trip ... PK->MK->PK in service mode.  No cleaning.  I then restarted the printer in service mode and printed a nozzle check.  I have had my ANC enabled for all prints for quite some time, and the ANC check for the nozzle pattern print found clogs and initiated a clean.  I'm guessing I had a few clogs to start with, but the black switch in service mode bypasses the nozzle check.  Just a guess but if so it appears you can completely bypass all automatic cleaning cycles by disabling ANC, and doing all cleans and ink swaps in service mode.

EDIT:  My printer cleaned until I received the error message .. 1st time this has happened. The clean consumed 64.22 ml of ink.   A nozzle check showed a substantial number of missing nozzles in PK only (which means the nozzle check was accurately reporting failed nozzles).  Oddly a service mode CL1 of that channel completely cleared the PK using only .41ml of PK ink .. yet multiple attempts before that failed (including using 18.22 ml of PK).

So it is plausible that switching inks actually causes failed nozzles (Probably not actual clogs).  Also it is curious that very aggressive cleans failed when a very minor clean succeeded ... perhaps the aggressive cleans cause problems much like ink switching?

I don't use MK much, but when I do I will probably start in service mode, switch inks and then send a nozzle check to the printer from the computer which appears to bypass ANC.  If the ink switch caused problems I can then clean just the affected channels in service mode, most likely using a CL1 and only consuming a very small amount of ink.

My 1st ink swap on my one-month-old 9900 also had the similar 60-80ml ink waste.  After swap the ink level of all channels dropped like 6~8% (these are the original 110ml tanks).  I called Epson today and the engineer told me it's ink drain not cleaning. He said it is normal and "everyone knows it".  Certainly I am disappointed by this answer.  I think he is wrong.  Ink draining during the swap is for 78/98xx printers.

If someone else called Epson on this issue please post what you got from them.

I am a new member and have been reading this forum for a while and got a lot of useful info and tips on Epson printers.  Thanks Wayne for your suggestion and I will try ink swap in service-mode.
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Wayne Fox

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« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 09:07:05 pm »

Quote from: LeiMeng
My 1st ink swap on my one-month-old 9900 also had the similar 60-80ml ink waste.  After swap the ink level of all channels dropped like 6~8% (these are the original 110ml tanks).  I called Epson today and the engineer told me it's ink drain not cleaning. He said it is normal and "everyone knows it".  Certainly I am disappointed by this answer.  I think he is wrong.  Ink draining during the swap is for 78/98xx printers.

If someone else called Epson on this issue please post what you got from them.

I am a new member and have been reading this forum for a while and got a lot of useful info and tips on Epson printers.  Thanks Wayne for your suggestion and I will try ink swap in service-mode.

Well, it isn't normal and the tech is incorrect.  Only the head needs "drained".  Epson's own documentation states this should take about 1.13ml to go from PK to MK, and about 3.34ml to go the other way.  Any ink beyond that was consumed in cleaning.
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Mulis Pictus

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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 02:35:22 am »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
EDIT:  My printer cleaned until I received the error message .. 1st time this has happened. The clean consumed 64.22 ml of ink.   A nozzle check showed a substantial number of missing nozzles in PK only (which means the nozzle check was accurately reporting failed nozzles).  Oddly a service mode CL1 of that channel completely cleared the PK using only .41ml of PK ink .. yet multiple attempts before that failed (including using 18.22 ml of PK).

Please keep us updated on your printer. From my experience, the printer run OK some time after repairs and the clogging problems started after I switched the black inks, so I wonder whether it was just coincidence or if it might be related. In one case it worked without single clog for 2 months, then I switched to PK and after that it was clogging all the time again :-(

Mulis

mcmorrison

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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2009, 12:58:46 pm »

Hello,

Well, I tried an ink switch in service mode, and it went off well with no automatic clean and no clog, as verified by before and after nozzle patterns.

I also tried regular printing in service mode and found it to work as usual, except that it did not cut off the roll length codes before printing as it does in regular mode. It does seem to read them, and to print them correctly when the roll is removed. Also, there is no setting of paper type or length in service mode when loading.

I will use service mode for ink swaps and probably for a bunch of printing. This seems to be a good solution. I may not find out if my ANC is working or not, but maybe I don't need to know!

Thanks,

Michael
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LeiMeng

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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2009, 11:05:34 pm »

Quote from: mcmorrison
Hello,

Well, I tried an ink switch in service mode, and it went off well with no automatic clean and no clog, as verified by before and after nozzle patterns.

I also tried regular printing in service mode and found it to work as usual, except that it did not cut off the roll length codes before printing as it does in regular mode. It does seem to read them, and to print them correctly when the roll is removed. Also, there is no setting of paper type or length in service mode when loading.

I will use service mode for ink swaps and probably for a bunch of printing. This seems to be a good solution. I may not find out if my ANC is working or not, but maybe I don't need to know!

Thanks,

Michael

Well, I did the same thing tonight.  Same experience with Michael.  Before more updated firmwire comes out, I will use service mode to clean and swap ink.
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Brian Gilkes

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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 03:42:41 am »

How do you start in service mode? The brain has missed a cog and I can't find it on the net...Sorry if I've missed it
Thanks
Brian
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Brian Gilkes

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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2009, 04:15:58 am »

Press stop Brain kicked in. Remembered  it.
While I'm on the blower I might say the 9900 clogs heaps more than the 9800.
When it goes it goes well, but Epson needs to do a heap of work . The service here is good., I'm glad  to say.
Cheers,
Brian
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JasonHopkins

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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2009, 06:57:25 pm »

Hey People,

**Back History
I have had a 9900 for 6 months and had a service guy out 4 times ove 5 months for clogging every 2 days.

Finally fixed the problem after replacing different parts such as wipers, pump and caps that were either broken or clogged near the inkjet heads. I would get the service men to check ALL the parts.

Finally I do not have to nozzle clean every 1 or 2 days!
**

Just when I thought my troubles were over this swapping PK and MK started up a month or so ago.

I was told by service man to switch off machine - doesnt work as it still cleans before switching off and wasting 20ml ink.

They have bumped my issue up a tech level and am waiting to hear back this week.

In the mean time when it goes into clean mode I have been told to open the door and press power down button to stop it cleaning.

Not sure if this works as I was only told this on Thursday.

My personal fix is to swap the blacks and then do manual PK or MK/LK colour pair clean before sending any jobs, uses a bit of ink but nothing like the 20ml+ before.

Keep you posted.
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