Canon G11 and S90

[narikin]

canon have announced the G11 and the S90.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081908canong11.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081907canons90.asp

it appears the S90 has the exact same sensor, a faster (f2.0) lens, and shoots RAW.

other than easier manual controls (and build quality) on the G11, it seems the smaller S90 is the more interesting pocketable solution of the two

[BernardLanguillier]

canon have announced the G11 and the S90.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081908canong11.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081907canons90.asp

If I am not mistaken, this is the first time that a brand decides to release a new model with significantly less megapixels than the camera is replaces.

Way to go Canon.

Since I gave my G10 to my wife, I guess that the G11 is on my shopping list.  

Cheers,
Bernard

[mbridgers]

Both look interesting.  I like the pixel-restraint: 10MP on the same size 1/1.7 sensor that was in the G10.

[BJL]

canon have announced the G11 and the S90.
it appears the S90 has the exact same sensor, a faster (f2.0) lens, and shoots RAW.

What is really newsworthy about these two is that Canon has dropped the pixel count of its top-of-the-line compacts! The G11 and S90 have a new 10MP 1/1.7" sensor, whereas the  G10 had a 14.7MP sensor of the same size. And of course, with this Canon is pushing improved dynamic range, and also a mode to help avoid blown highlights. Perhaps the Panasonic LX3 with its 10MP 1/1.63" sensor has created a new category at the top of the fixed lens compact camera market for better "per pixel" specs (even if "per image" quality is not improved!).

Though the S90 lens is faster at the wide end (f/2 vs f/2., the G11 lens is faster at the long end (f/4.5 at 30.5mm true focal length vs f/4.9 at 22.5mm) so combined with the greater maximum focal length, the G11 is probably faster at equal focal lengths over most of the telephoto range, where speed is probably most important. And the G11 has a hot-shoe and articulated LCD, while the S90 weighs far less and might fit into a pants pocket for those who care about that ... so each has its advantages.


Aside: an interesting coincidence is that the G11 without battery but with lens weighs exactly the same 355g as the E-P1 without lens but with battery and with a sensor of about five times the area. For me, the far larger sensor and low-light advantage of the E-P1 is worth the modest increase in weight and size, but I will not claim that everyone will make the same trade-offs as me; I am sure the G11 will sell well.

[narikin]

Aside: an interesting coincidence is that the G11 without battery but with lens weighs exactly the same 355g as the E-P1 without lens but with battery and with a sensor of about five times the area. For me, the far larger sensor and low-light advantage of the E-P1 is worth the modest increase in weight and size, but I will not claim that everyone will make the same trade-offs as me; I am sure the G11 will sell well.

agree, fair points, I prefer the E-P1 sensor, but Olympus dont seem to have the controls/ AF/ shutter lag/ burst worked out at all, (lots of complaints on that) whereas Canon has all that brilliantly sorted in the G series.

shame you can't have the best of both worlds.

personally I'm disappointed its not a physically bigger size CMOS sensor in the G11.
there were rumors of a Canon GX with just that, but I guess they belong in the bin marked Unicorns and Mermaids.

[BJL]

personally I'm disappointed its not a physically bigger size CMOS sensor in the G11.
there were rumors of a Canon GX with just that, but I guess they belong in the bin marked Unicorns and Mermaids.

We have been hearing speculations of sensor upsizing in fixed lens compacts for years now, but it all seems like wishful thinking. What we have actually got from the major camera makers (Sigma does not count!) is downsizing from 2/3" to about 1/1.7" as the maximum sensor size, along with overall downsizing of compact camera sensors to 1/2.3" as the now dominant sensor format.

My guess is that sensors larger than those in current high end fixed lens compacts will only succeed if they come with lens options through interchangeable lenses, so Micro Four Thirds, the forthcoming Samsung NX and so on. If either of those "compact interchangeable lens systems" succeeds, as MFT seems to be so far, then Canon, Nikon and others will likely follow.

[knweiss]

canon have announced the G11 and the S90.

Recommended price according to dpreview:
• G11: $499, €589, £569
• S90: $429, €469, £449

[BJL]

Recommended price according to dpreview:
• G11: $499, €589, £569
• S90: $429, €469, £449

Clearly size rather than price is what makes people choose high end compacts like these over entry level DSLR kits: compare for example the E-520 w/14-42 for $435, or if greater focal length range is desired,  the E-520 w/14-42 and 40-150 for $507. Though what the low end of DSLR offerings lacks is modestly priced 4x or 5x standard zooms; 3x zooms rule, for size reasons again I suspect.

[Paul Sumi]

If I am not mistaken, this is the first time that a brand decides to release a new model with significantly less megapixels than the camera is replaces.

Well, Canon couldn't go much higher in megapixel count without intruding on 1Ds3 and 5D2 territory.

Although if Canon had upped the MPs on the G11, I would have loved a 1Ds3 / 5D2  / G11 shootout by Michael.     Think of all the $$ and weight we Canon shooters could've saved!

Paul

ps: for the record I own a G10, and I think I'll wait for the G12.

[narikin]

ps: for the record I own a G10, and I think I'll wait for the G12.

ditto
its just not compelling enough to upgrade, unless you do a lot of low available light shooting.
if you work mostly at base ISO, then the G10 seems a keeper for 2 generations at least

[stever]

i still use an s60 infrequently as a pocket camera and the s90 does indeed look interesting - if it only had a viewfinder.

[Ken Bennett]

Well I have a G7, so the G11 is looking like a pretty good upgrade.

[Paul Sumi]

personally I'm disappointed its not a physically bigger size CMOS sensor in the G11.
there were rumors of a Canon GX with just that, but I guess they belong in the bin marked Unicorns and Mermaids.

I'd like that, too, but unfortunately the physical size of the lenses would also have to get bigger.  And the G is only a marginally pocketable camera right now.  But I think the G11's trading off megapixels for (presumably) cleaner higher ISO perfomance is a step in the right direction.

Paul

[DarkPenguin]

Are they doing lens corrections in camera?  Some of the samples look remarkably clean.  Could be the lens or they could be automagically cleaning the images.

[Pete Ferling]

Finally, the articulating LCD is back (and it's much bigger).  Time to upgrade the old faithful G5.  (Should I tell the wife? Hmmmm).

[jasonrandolph]

Does this mean we have reached the end of the pixel wars?  Please say yes.  

[Jeremy Payne]

Does this mean we have reached the end of the pixel wars?  Please say yes.  

Seems like it ... I hear the same stuff is coming soon in DSLRs ... reduced MP and increased sensitivity/quality ...

[EdRosch]

I purchased a G9 a couple of years ago as a camera to have with me when photography was not my primary concern.  I did very much like the form factor and handling.  What I did not like, to the point that I rarely carry it, was two things.  First, as discussed the very poor IQ at anything beyond ISO 80.  I certainly hope dropping the MP count will help with this as well as two years of progress in the technology.

The far worse factor was the shutter lag.  Often when I'm shooting, the image I wish to capture is fleeting and in most cases proved impossible to get with the G9.  It's as if when I press the shutter release the camera treats it as a suggestion that it consider taking the shot.  I'm looking forward to seeing the reviews and if this has been addressed in the G11.  If so,  I'd be very interested.

[JeffKohn]

I definitely find the S90 form-factor preferable; having something that's truly pocketable is more appealing than the extra zoom range on the G11. What I'm wondering is how similar the performance of these two cameras is in areas that don't really show up on a spec sheet: thinks like shutter lag, AF performance, write time for RAW files, etc.

Anyone else surprised that the video capability is limited to 640x480 on these cameras? Even the $250 Panasonic TZ5 I bought my wife last summer can do 720p.

[feppe]

Anyone else surprised that the video capability is limited to 640x480 on these cameras? Even the $250 Panasonic TZ5 I bought my wife last summer can do 720p.

Not really. I bet there's quite a bit of head scratching at Canon to figure out what features to include in compacts to avoid cannibalizing their higher-end models. While I'm sure size is at a premium on these products, it's often the case that features get axed or at least reduced to be able to sell different-priced products to consumers with differing spending potential, while keeping the product essentially the same. Sure, the G11 and S90 might look very different, but I bet 90% of the components are exactly the same. And I bet some features are disabled in software. That's why you sometimes see new features in firmware hacks.

The economic term is price discrimination, which is the wet dream of any finance professional.

As much as I'd like to believe the MP reduction is an end to megapixel wars, it's more likely a result of eating into the sales of low-end dSLRs. Fortunately we'll see the same pixel-binning tech (or whatever they are using) in the next generation of dSLRs.