still life guys: praise your view camera

linhof 679 cs (newer)

3 (6.1%)

linhof 679 (older)

1 (2%)

sinar p3

10 (20.4%)

sinar p2

14 (28.6%)

arca swiss monolith

4 (8.2%)

rollei x-act

2 (4.1%)

plaubel 66

0 (0%)

silvestri ?!

2 (4.1%)

other

7 (14.3%)

cambo ultima

6 (12.2%)

Total Members Voted: 47

[ThierryH]

hi Ciprian,

Yes, that's all you need to convert a p2 to p3 on the camera side.

tilt & swing axis: by using the "normal 4x5" frame and mounting a back, the axis are not in the image/sensor plane, thus it need a special frame to bring these axis in the sensor plane. This was the "Carrier Frame Wide".

The p3 100mm rear frame is built in a way that the H & V axis are positioned in the sensor plane.

There is no "distance" between the 2 axis: they simply "cross" each other, like they cross each other on a p2 (bottom dotted line for the H-axis, resp. right dotted line for the V-axis). The 100mm frame design and the mount of the digital back makes sure that a portion of each axis is at the bottom, respectively on the right side of your sensor plane (assymetric), respectively in the 100m frame. The same design is assured by the sliding back, which exists in different mounts (Hasselblad V and H, Mamiya, Contax, Hy6)

So yes, therefore you can use the same "old" 2-point setting method, like in the "good old days" with 4x5".

And what makes it especially convenient and accurate is the live video focusing on the axis, at 100%: no way to get your plane wrong, even by a a 1/10 of degree or mm.

Best regards,
Thierry

Hello again, Thierry

Converting P2 to P3 sounds pretty interesting. I've found this older post: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....28mm+lens+on+p2, where you wrote this:
"this conversion kit consists of the 2 4x5" frames (lens and image) which are exchanged with 2 100mm p3 frames and with in addition a 100mm p3 bellows"
Is this all? You simply change the frames and you can use the 2-points sharpness plane adjustment? The old 4X5 2-points axes are placed at a distance bigger than sensors size. As long as you use the same old standard/bearer I can't see how you might have 2-points sharpness plane adjustment.

Regards,
Ciprian

[ThierryH]

Dear Jim,

by "well adjusted" I mean to make sure that the p2 has been serviced/checked and adjusted to the normal tolerances of the p2 camera: it is normal that the adjustments and gears get loose with time (due to mechanical frictions, grease getting old, ...), and a normal servicing/adjustment of the focus, tilt & swing as well as shift mechanism should be done every 5 years, if used in normal circumstances (Sinar p every 2-3 years). When this servicing is done in the Sinar factory, all the internal components/gears are changed to new ones (not only adjusted), making sure that your p2 is like new and holding for another 5 years.

Best regards,
Thierry

theirry - re: p2 - can you explain what you mean by "well adjusted" movements/gears? I'm a new-to-me p2 owner and I wish the gearing were a bit tighter for 645 applications...

[photo570]

Yes, that may be your best bet, but you will still need new lens boards. You can't just slap your old p2 lens boards on a p3. If you use a sinarcam or expolux going back to copals will suck big time.

Cheers,
Jason.

Jason
Thanks for the tip.
But I would not consider CAB or CMV shutters, instead I'll stick with Copals. This amonut of money are indeed huge for 5 plain lensboards. Did I understood something wrong?

[Dick Roadnight]

I use a p2 and looked at changing to a p3, but beware if you have a lot of lenses, as the difference in price is huge, and conversion is not cheap, and must be done by Sinar, they will not sell you a mount to do it yourself. For 5 lenses it was going to cost over $15k Aussie to convert them or approx. $25k to replace them. Not cheap. The "Wide carrier frame" is the way to go if you can find one.
Cheers,
Jason.

See:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....;hl=apo-digitar

Sinar UK were happy to sell me P3 lensboards, and Linhof Studios sold me a lens tool and mounted my lenses.

The P3 is an open system, so anyone can make P3 compatible lensboards... but I do not know if anyone does.

[photo570]

Hi Dick,

I use Sinaron Digital DB lenses which are controlled with an auto aperture motor so I can control them from within Leaf capture 8.4.6 which I use with my Leaf Cantare's, and a Expolux shutter which can be controlled from behind the camera which I use with my Valeo. I don't believe you can fit a db mount on a p3 lens board, which means a switch to CMV or loose that functionality. Copals are a pain for close-up work or multi exposures.

Cheers,
Jason.

See:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....;hl=apo-digitar

Sinar UK were happy to sell me P3 lensboards, and Linhof Studios sold me a lens tool and mounted my lenses.

The P3 is an open system, so anyone can make P3 compatible lensboards... but I do not know if anyone does.

[Dick Roadnight]

Copals are a pain for close-up work or multi exposures.

Cheers,
Jason.

I would like to upgrade my system to all Schneider Electronic Shutter (SES), but I have press shutters on some of my lenses, which save touching the camera between shots.

[Fritzer]

3. Sinar p3

The gears on the Sinar p3 are adjusted differently than on the Sinar p2, allowing a more precise adjustment of either tilt/swing movements or focusing. But it remains a typical studio camera, not especially built for location work outside.


Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,
I don't mean to attack you, but in some old topic you were telling me the gears of the P2 and P3 were identical, so I'm a tad confused here.

Anyways, I'm using 2 P2s , am totally happy with them, focusing issues seem to come rather from a slight misalignment of my Cambo adapter's ground glass than any possible gearing tolerances.
That's for still life, lenses used 35-120mm mostly, Leaf Aptus 75 .

Even when I use worn out P2 rental cameras, focusing and tilt/shift don't seem to be a real problem - I mean, it's focused or not, what's the big deal ?
Tilt and shift always need to be re-adjusted a tad, so as long as the camera is solid (P2 sure is), I think it's mainly the photographer's skills that matter.

Speaking of rentals, the Sinar 4x5 system still seems the be the most common LF system on the planet, so I can get rentals and parts on short notice pretty much everywhere - a big selling point for me.

Last, but not least - you can get a P2 in good condition for less than 1k € on ebay, with a little luck - they are a steal .

[ThierryH]

They are the same movement gears, but adjusted differently.

Sure, enough, the p2 even worn out still allows for focusing and other movements.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,
I don't mean to attack you, but in some old topic you were telling me the gears of the P2 and P3 were identical, so I'm a tad confused here.

Anyways, I'm using 2 P2s , am totally happy with them, focusing issues seem to come rather from a slight misalignment of my Cambo adapter's ground glass than any possible gearing tolerances.
That's for still life, lenses used 35-120mm mostly, Leaf Aptus 75 .

Even when I use worn out P2 rental cameras, focusing and tilt/shift don't seem to be a real problem - I mean, it's focused or not, what's the big deal ?
Tilt and shift always need to be re-adjusted a tad, so as long as the camera is solid (P2 sure is), I think it's mainly the photographer's skills that matter.

Speaking of rentals, the Sinar 4x5 system still seems the be the most common LF system on the planet, so I can get rentals and parts on short notice pretty much everywhere - a big selling point for me.

Last, but not least - you can get a P2 in good condition for less than 1k € on ebay, with a little luck - they are a steal .

[GregShapps]

Hello Greg

It's not the first time when I look at your site, I've noticed it some years ago. Cool, refreshing visual style.
Don't know for sure why I ask this, but I'm just curious what camera do you use.

I use a Cambo Ultma 23  with an h25 & p45+ as well as 1ds2 & 5d2 - and a very goofy wide range of lenses for both systems

[Gary Ferguson]

I've used a Linhof M679 for about seven or eight years. Linhof were terrific when they released the M679cs because they took my camera back and upgraded it to cs specifications for a reasonable price.

I'm feeling less warm about them at the moment though. I've just switched from a Hasselblad V to a Mamiya/Phase One 645 system. I thought it would be a simple matter of getting a new Mamiya adapter plate and a new etched ground glass, to allow fitting the Mamiya mount Phase One digital back to the Linhof sliding carriage. Unfortunately not, they've changed the sliding carriage design and now I need a completely new one to fit my Mamiya mount P65+.

Oh well...

[Dick Roadnight]

I've used a Linhof M679 for about seven or eight years. Linhof were terrific when they released the M679cs because they took my camera back and upgraded it to cs specifications for a reasonable price.

I'm feeling less warm about them at the moment though. I've just switched from a Hasselblad V to a Mamiya/Phase One 645 system. I thought it would be a simple matter of getting a new Mamiya adapter plate and a new etched ground glass, to allow fitting the Mamiya mount Phase One digital back to the Linhof sliding carriage. Unfortunately not, they've changed the sliding carriage design and now I need a completely new one to fit my Mamiya mount P65+.

Oh well...

Nothing MFD is ever simple (in my experience). Sinar kit is good, but expensive (apart for incompatibility with high-res backs)... and it would be lovely to get everything from one manufacturer.

Phase/Teamwork are getting their act together and offering a starter (60 Mpx) bundle from £30,000 - would have been nice to have everything from one retailer, and within two or three hours of here, but they seem very anti-Sinar.