Is a dry mount laminating press desirable?

[Rocco Penny]

Hi there,
Spent part of the weekend mounting and framing pieces.
Got three done.
Wrestled them into submission, and t-hinged them.
Don't much think this is the best way.
Thinking a press may be beneficial.
Wondering if any of you folks with some experience with one might steer me right.
What does it mean when the specs for the platen size says it can handle up to 36 inches in sections, but the platen is 18 inches at its widest?
Do you flip the piece end for end?
OK, and do I need a big platen size if I regularly make 24x18 inch prints?
I'd like to keep my options open for really big pieces.
Thank you
Rocco Penny

[bill t.]

I have mounted many 24 x 60 sized prints on a press with a 26" x 34" platen.

The trick is to do it in sections.  You tack the print down at one edge only, just two tacks.  Should be one of the short dimension edges.  If you're a good graphic artist you will trim away the protruding drymount tissue.  Then you put the tacked section under the press for whatever time you think is right, typically 90 seconds to 2 minutes.  You MUST start with the tacked section, and again remember only 2 tacks on one edge.  Then you move the still warm package to the next section with maybe 25% overlap, and press that.  Don't worry about double heating the overlap section, it can take it if your press isn't over about 190F.

But I left out some stuff...

Without any tissue you must pre-press both print and backing to get rid of moisture.  Moisture undermines the drymount bod.  About 30 seconds for the print, 1 minute for the backing, you can give them both 1 minute together if you want.  This is especially important if you are mounting RC papers which are so stiff the slightest ripple in the print will cause a crease of bubble when you mount it.

There must be a cover sheet like a 1/16" piece of matte board covering the print + backing and protruding out past the edge of the plate.  If you don't have this, the edge of the plate will make an impression on the print.

You must exercise fanatical cleanliness to avoid getting a tiny piece of grit either under or on the print.  Obsessively wipe down the back, the tissue and both sides of the print.  Before putting the package in the press, search the surface of the print with at an acute angle reflection of a bright light.  A clean work table is a must, you can use a bed sheet  reserved just for this purpose.

RC paper is a special pain when it comes to drymounting, especially in sections.  The book says you're supposed to use Colormount tissue, but I have found Colormount does not give a reliable bond with a thick cover sheet, it has something to do with the slow temperature rise through the cover sheet.  With a cover sheet you should only use Promount tissue which gives a very strong bond.  Promount is carried by United Mfrs etc.  And it bears repeating that pre-pressing is necessity, most especially with RC.

The mechanical pressure is important too.  If your press has adjustable pressure it should be set just below the point where if you press a 8x10 RC print on a larger piece of 3/16 foamcore, there will just barely be an impression of the print outline on the foamcore.  Some presses like the Seals have double pressure adjustment posts, be sure you are pressing equally hard on both sides of the platen.  If you are pressing too hard, when you look at your sectionally mounted big prints from the side you will see bands of different reflective characteristics where your overlaps were.

The foam pad can get too hard for good dry mounting.  You should easily be able to pinch it to half its width between thumb and finger.

Do tests on junk prints.  Try to peel them up (easy to do on Colormount'd prints when you use a thick cover sheet).  Slice them apart to see if there are sections that are not fully mounted.

Some old presses have awful heat regulation.  Can't use those for RC at all.  A good press will stay with +-5 degrees of setting.  RC will delaminate above about 210 or 220F, but can press quite a while at 190F with no problem.  You can get little temperature indicating sheets from sources like United Mfrs, I use a $10 digital temperature meter I got at Harbor Freight, shame on me.  A simple test is to leave a piece of RC in the press for 10 or 20 minutes, if it survives you're OK.  If you get bonds you can easily peel up, your temp is too low.

A couple years bought a good teflon tacking iron labeled "Hangar 9" on ebay for about $10.  I think it was intended from stretching coverings on model airplanes.  But if you don't have a tacking iron and your artwork isn't too big you can just use one of the corners of the press for tacking.

A nice pro touch is buy a short roll of "Silicone Release Paper" which when placed above the print will prevent any protruding tissue from sticking to the cover sheet.  But I never use, I'm a good trimmer with #11 Xacto.

[Rocco Penny]

holy smokes! Thank you bill t.
You know, I've spent a great deal of my life not knowing which questions to ask.
Many times there was just no one to ask.  Sometimes when I'd get an answer, even in my most neophyte moments, I could tell maybe the accurateness of the answer was in question.
That is if I could get an answer at all.
I can also tell an expert when I see one
You bill t. are beyond generous, and I hope to someday be able to contribute like you do.

 Thank you,

and is a 20x20 platen as good as a 24x34 platen for mounting pieces typically 24 inches on the longest dimension?
Or for that matter would an 18x15 press work as well for the bigger pieces after I learn to use it?

Thanks again
Rocco Penny

[framah]

You might also want to look into  a heat table which is a machine where the whole piece goes in at one time so there is none of that mounting in bites and possibly screwing it up. Predrying is also made easier as it is done all at one time. The other up side is that when you take it out of the press, you can weight the whole piece till it cools and get a better job.

 There are varying sizes but look for as large as you think you will ever need.  I use a 40x60 in my store and they do make one that is 48x96. They make a 36x48 also.  There are used ones out there.

[gcs]

I do understand that drymount is not recommended for Epson Exhibition Fiber nor Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, what other options do I have with a large prints 110x110 cm (40x40 inch), so they are totally flat when you frame them?

Gonzalo

[bill t.]

I do understand that drymount is not recommended for Epson Exhibition Fiber nor Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, what other options do I have with a large prints 110x110 cm (40x40 inch), so they are totally flat when you frame them?

Get a professional with good equipment to adhesive mount them for you.  A very large roller system is just about a must for prints that size.

I wonder if the caution against dry mounting is because of presses with lousy thermostats and users with bad technique?  Would be worth trying a small print at 160F with one of the many low temperature tissues or boards designed for delicate mateials.  For instance Bienfang Step 150 Foam Board has pre-applied drymount stuff that works at 150F and I seem to recall they sent me a sample of something that bonds in 15 or 30 seconds at 150F.  Have never tried any of these, maybe framah knows.

[bill t.]

and is a 20x20 platen as good as a 24x34 platen for mounting pieces typically 24 inches on the longest dimension?

Yes, but it's probably best if have a press where you can use only double overlap areas versus say a 2x2 press pattern when one section would wind up getting four presses, those situations are fairly wrinkle prone since paper shrinks at bit during the heating.  After watching ebay and Craigslist for a while I got a 26 x 34 Masterpiece 500T-X press for a real bargain.  Heavy as sin and takes up 40 x 40 of floorspace but runs off 110V.  Since I don't dry mount that often I store it under the main work table on a roll-out cart.  There also one down from that slightly.

And yes those vacuum heat presses are very nice if you can give them the floor space and have 220V available.  Worth also noting that heat presses of any kind are more pleasant to use during January than in August, one advantage of the vacuum models is they don't generate heat when they are in idle mode.

[gcs]

Get a professional with good equipment to adhesive mount them for you.  A very large roller system is just about a must for prints that size.

I wonder if the caution against dry mounting is because of presses with lousy thermostats and users with bad technique?  Would be worth trying a small print at 160F with one of the many low temperature tissues or boards designed for delicate mateials.  For instance Bienfang Step 150 Foam Board has pre-applied drymount stuff that works at 150F and I seem to recall they sent me a sample of something that bonds in 15 or 30 seconds at 150F.  Have never tried any of these, maybe framah knows.

Thank you Bill,

Locally I have a company that uses a double sided tape and they use a roller system to place them, but I am not sure if this system would comply with archival requirements.

By the way, is dry mounting archival?

Gonzalo

[Rocco Penny]

...
it's probably best if have a press where you can use only double overlap areas versus say a 2x2 press pattern when one section would wind up getting four presses, those situations are fairly wrinkle prone since paper shrinks at bit during the heating.  After watching ebay and Craigslist for a while I got a...
...

Okay then, the paper can only take so much pressing before bad things happen.
I'd like a 500T to handle most of my needs then. Handling the paper isn't a snap for me, and I'd see mounting issues lessened by using a press.
It just makes sense.
Is there any price range for a used 500t?
What's a good deal?
Thank you all.
Rocco

[ChuckT]

Okay then, the paper can only take so much pressing before bad things happen.
I'd like a 500T to handle most of my needs then. Handling the paper isn't a snap for me, and I'd see mounting issues lessened by using a press.
It just makes sense.
Rocco

We have an older 500T and are moving to a Vacuum Press

Using a 500T - get a Gralab timer and make sure you either have a better thermostat on your press than we have or you keep an eye on the Temp. needle.

Adjust the Press to just "grap" your mount sandwich, too much pressure is NG
Use 1.5 - 2 minutes at 160/180 f
Use a release sheet between the sandwich and the platen

DO NOT OVERCOOK - if your mounted prints come out with a distinct hump they will never lay flat - you have driven so much moisture out of the board that it is now compress on one side and stretched on the other, don't ask me how I know this.  

cvt

[bill t.]

Do not get a 500T.  It has an old fashioned thermostat which even if it is not broken will vary the temperature from way too cold to way too hot.  There is no really good workaround, but if you press a dummy artwork package for about a minute before pressing your real artwork package, you can at least soak the worst effects of a high-side temperature swing.

The 500T-X has a very nice temperature controller, that's the difference in the model number.  Mine barely budges from the set temperature.

I recall hearing that you can upgrade a 500T with a 500T-X thermostat, but check first.

[framah]

No, dry mounting is not archival, tho the  speed mount stuff that only takes about 30 seconds at 150 is supposed to be completely reversible which would make it archival.
I only use it on really fragile stuff and silks where it is nice to have it flat and not moving around.  The nice thing about it is that if I want, i can lift the fabric right off without any effort.

Here's my take on archivalness...

I will use it for most stuff that comes in the store as it is for customers and not my own stuff. If it is a simple photo or poster or some such, then I dry mount and be done with it.

I will use corner pockets or hinging for the good stuff but for my own photos, I want them to lay flat and I don't care about archivalness of mounting as whatever damage might remotely  happen due to my using a dry mounting tissue  mounting system  will probably not happen till way after I'm long dead.  Let them come back to me then and I'll see what i can do about it.

Personal rant here:
Too many people out there make too much noise about archivalness of their art (sort of like pixel peepers)  and in all honesty, the vast majority of them will never be of the level of famousness/collectibility that archival methods would need to be used to preserve their art. I think I make some really nice images but I know I will never be on a list of must have artists. I want it to look nice and having the photo flat is important for me.


 I do only use Bainbridge artcare mats or Rising rag mats or Crescent rag mats.  Not worth stocking the lower quality garbage.  It just looks better.

Remember that Ansel adams glued his photos to chipboard and THAT definitely was not archival and they are holding up ok and what we have today is far better than that method.

Remember, this is only my opinion based on my years of framing experience ( and some actual facts) mixed with my personal likes. Nothing is written in stone.


Oh, by the way... yes it is real nice to have the heat table on in mid winter!! Many times I wanted to sleep on it.  Summertime.. not so much.

[Rocco Penny]

whoa!OK

Is a dry mount press even necessary?

It seems like a real expert is more interested in so called "archival-ness"
for customers, and  perhaps other mounting solutions for their own work?

The reason I say, is because I'm one to make do with what I have,
and not adding another layer of work to an already demanding process would be ok

I'm of course asking because I want the print affixed to a foamcore backer.

I t-hinged several 20+ inch prints and found I was handling the paper too much and marring the finish

I'd like to become more adept at making a print lay flat and stay put.  I guess a D-roller would help as well.

OK, so do any of you make do without a press on most of your work?
thank you again,
and have a great! day
Rocco

[Rocco Penny]

Is there any way to reduce the smell one of these presses gives off?
I acquired a Seal 210M with the older thermostat.
It smells up my studio. That's even when not in use.
It was used by a pro wedding photographer for years, but is in good/very good condition
It has a very clean platen and pad.
It still smells awful.
Maybe I can clean the metal parts and air out the pad in the nice sunshine for a week or two?
Hokay, thanks for the space
Rocco

[bill t.]

Is there any way to reduce the smell one of these presses gives off?

Have used a lot of drymount presses, never ran into a seriously smelly one.

Those presses are also used in various industrial processes, and even by teenagers down at the t-shirt shop at the mall.  Maybe yours has some industrial by-products on it or even inside the somewhat hollow top heating platen.  The kids at the mall of course turn up the heat to the max to mount those t-shirt decals.  Maybe it had a significant overheat event that broke down some part of the insulation or something.  Like being left on for a couple days at max heat.  Take a look at the AC cord.

If it's the pad you can just buy a new one.  I think BhPhoto has them.  If you can't easily pinch it to 1/2 it's depth you should get a new one anyway.  In general all the parts for that old but not totally ancient model are probably still available from Bienfang, you can even replace the heating elements.  Sometimes there's a spacer under the pad like a piece of Masonite, check that too.