Framing Art Papers

[Chris Bishop]

I've followed the training DVDs, forums and other professional sites. I've bought some arty papers and loaded Matt black ink. (Epson R2400).
So far so good.
Now when I mount behind a matt and behind glass a lot of what I paid for seems lost.
What should I be doing?
Chris Bishop

[Bruce Watson]

I've followed the training DVDs, forums and other professional sites. I've bought some arty papers and loaded Matt black ink. (Epson R2400).
So far so good.
Now when I mount behind a matt and behind glass a lot of what I paid for seems lost.
What should I be doing?
Chris Bishop

The main reason to frame conventionally behind glazing is to protect the print. From all kinds of evils -- sticky little hands, sneezes, pointing fingers, temperature and relative humidity fluctuations, poor or fluctuating air quality, UV exposure from sunlight or display lighting, etc. Even if you frame without glazing you still loose some of what you paid for -- the hand feel. The only way to regain that is to let people handle the prints. And inkjet prints won't last long that way.

What should you be doing? Really, whatever you want. You pays your money and you makes your choice. The library of congress thinks you should frame their way. Considering the time and effort they've put into researching this topic, I suspect they have a point. But again, since you are paying, the choice is all yours.

[Craig Murphy]

It seems to me that if you are going to glass then the best way is to use museum grade non glare glass.  Its expensive as hell but regular glass is a drag.  It just sucks to have reflections.    There are times when you can hardly tell a piece of artwork has museum glass on it.

[framah]

Second on the Museum glass. Yes it is expensive, but It really looks as tho there is no glass when viewed straight on. From an angle, you will get reflections but they are so muted as to not be a bother visually. I have one artist who will only put museum glass in front of his photo montages. When you go into the gallery and look around, his pieces jump off the wall due to the visual impact of no reflections.

Plus, you need to buy museum glass... How else could I have afforded the trip to Antarctica!!

[Dward]

I agree that museum glass is vastly preferable to even "regular" UV protective framing glass, but it's BREATHTAKINGLY expensive, and somewhat difficult to handle.  It's harder than other glass, which makes it more prone to break when handled or during cutting.   And it's much more tedious to clean--using non-ammonia glass cleaners helps but even with these, it can be hard to get rid of streaks and smears.

The brand I'm talking about is TruVue, btw.  TruVue Museum, as opposed to TruVue Conservation Clear.   The latter is UV protective but doesn't give the "invisible" effect that museum glass does.

David V. Ward, Ph. D.
www.dvward.com
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography

[Chris Bishop]

Thanks all, prompt as well!
I don't think my clients would pay for this level of glass. I'm disappointed at the loss of texture that shows through.
Chris Bishop

[JeffKohn]

I understand your frustration. My solution for my own prints is to frame them without glazing, but this probably isn't the best idea for prints sold to clients, since they can't reprint as easily as I can if something happens to the print  . The museum glass is nice but as pointed out very expensive; and AFAIK nobody ships it so you're going to have to deal with a local framer which makes it even more expensive. I'm surprised there isn't any plexiglass with non-glare coatings available, after all if they can do it for eyeglass lenses...

[framah]

Actually, they do have an acrylic version.  It's called Optium and it is WAAAAYYY more expensive than Museum glass. Museum glass retails for about $25 per sq. ft. and the Optium would retail for about $60 per sq. ft.

By the way, glass is glass. Neither is harder than the other. It scores and breaks exactly like other glass. It scores better if you score it on the side it tells you to. As for cleaning, NEVER use any cleaner with ammonia in it as the residuals of the ammonia can get trapped in the frame package and interact with the art enclosed.  The idea is to isolate the art from the pollutants in the air not include them.

It you are getting streaks on the glass after cleaning, then you aren't using enough cleaner and possibly not wiping it thoroughly enough. Those are the main reasons to have any streaking on any glass after cleaning.

[neile]

One option that is less expensive than Museum glass is anti-reflection acrylight. It doesn't offer the crazy supreme protection of museum glass, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper and pretty darn invisible in front of prints. I've framed several images with it and people are always astounded at how invisible the stuff is.

Neil

[JeffKohn]

One option that is less expensive than Museum glass is anti-reflection acrylight. It doesn't offer the crazy supreme protection of museum glass, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper and pretty darn invisible in front of prints. I've framed several images with it and people are always astounded at how invisible the stuff is.

Neil

Does it have an anti-reflective coating, or is this the anti-glare stuff that has kind of a matte finish?

[Kumar]

One option that is less expensive than Museum glass is anti-reflection acrylight. It doesn't offer the crazy supreme protection of museum glass, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper and pretty darn invisible in front of prints. I've framed several images with it and people are always astounded at how invisible the stuff is.

Neil

Neil,

If you could let us know where to buy it, with a product number, it would be a great help. I tried googling it, but couldn't come up with anything relevant.

Thanks,
Kumar

[Wayne Fox]

It seems to me that if you are going to glass then the best way is to use museum grade non glare glass.  Its expensive as hell but regular glass is a drag.  It just sucks to have reflections.    There are times when you can hardly tell a piece of artwork has museum glass on it.

Does it have an anti-reflective coating, or is this the anti-glare stuff that has kind of a matte finish?

There is a dramatic difference between "non glare" and "anti-reflective".  While non glare glass does eliminate most reflections it does so at the expense of print clarity.  I'm sure you had anti-reflective in mind when you said non-glare. I bring this up because  recently had nine pieces framed and matted by an experienced framer who does mostly photographic framing, and specified anti-reflective glass.  I normally double matte, or when using a frame and frame liner have the glass between the liner and the frame, so the glass is always a fair distance from the print.  Fortunately I stopped by to sign the matts for a few of the prints and he showed me the one finished piece ... which as with non-glare glass.  I was actually surprised at the mistake because it looked horrible, you can imagine non-glare glass that is 1/2" away from the surface of the print.   he just checked the wrong option when creating the orders and I didn't notice it when I went over the final orders.

BTW, the reason I tried the glass between the frame and liner (I normally use a black linen liner) was trying to find a solution to the OP's question ... how can I make sure some of that beautiful texture on EEF is apparent and doesn't get confused with the surface of the glass.  Personally I think it helps.

[Colorwave]

Acrylite is a brand name.  Here is a link to a distributer's page:

http://www.piedmontplastics.com/prodtype.a...=4&TYPE=488

[bill t.]

I hate glazing.  I especially hate all the murderous little glass trims that accumulate during a serious framing frenzy.

That's why I use canvas.  Print it, coat it, mount or stretch it, slap it in a frame.  You're there.  No trims, no cut fingers, no blood.  Just say NO to glazing of any kind.  Slop some spaghetti sauce on it, wipe it off with a wet t-shirt, no harm done but you will be reminded of the pre-canvas blood letting you used to do.  And nobody dies from shrapnel wounds if it ever falls off the wall with people around.

I suffered with anti-canvas, paper-centric snobbery for quite a while until I actually tried some canvas.  It's great.  It's different, but rich looking, high gamut, even brilliant prints on canvas are no trouble at all.  Extremely high client appeal especially when used with a liner.  Really.  Of course you will miss the pleasure of chasing out that last piece of lint that you didn't notice until you saw the piece hung up in the gallery on opening night.  Yes the liner is not spaghetti sauce immune.  But if you use oatmeal style liners they will obscure a few years worth of house dust at which point they can be easily cleaned with a piece of masking tape.

BTW many of the little spray bottle cleaners made for LCD screens can do a great job on the iridescent curiosity-poke fingerprints that will accumulate on your near-invisible Museum Glass.  A local tiny spritz can be wiped off without leaving streaks.

One comment about Acrylite...real Acrylite is a product made by a company called Cyro.  Their low end Acrylite-FF is excellent for glazing, only about a square foot out of two or three 4x8 foot sheets will have scratches, ripples or embedded defects.  Problem is, one of the two suppliers I use started subbing generic acrylic sheet when I specified Acyrlite, and that stuff is full or little black specks that stand out beautifully against white mattes, and has very visible ripples when viewed from the side at acute angles.  So be sure you get the real thing.  Acrylite-FF, ask for it by name.  My local Piedmont distributor invariably has real Acyrlite-FF.

[neile]

If you could let us know where to buy it, with a product number, it would be a great help. I tried googling it, but couldn't come up with anything relevant.

The stuff I use is Acrylite P99 Non-Glare. Here's a page at TAP Plastics with the info: http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=349&. I get it from my local framing supply company in boxes of 6 sheets 32x40, just like matboard. I can cut it on my table saw using a blade for cutting plastic I got from TAP.

Michael, incidentally, uses Acrylite OP3 for his framing. At least he did last time I watched a video of him doing his framing. I believe it was the From Camera to Print video.

Neil

[bill t.]

If you want to go anti-reflection, IMHO it's best to go all the way to Museum Glass or unglazed, coated canvas.

What all the low-end anti-reflection glazings like P99 have in common is that they function by having a slight hazing on the surface.  This has an effect on your image like setting the Shadows slider rather high in the Image->Adjustments->Shadows/Highlights dialogue.  The glazed image looks higher key than what you printed.  And perceived Dmax rises a tone or two.  Has relatively little effect on paintings, watercolors and such but photographs suffer.  Bill Brandt would have hated it.

Last time I was at the Piedmont distributor (a few days ago) they were handing swatch books with P99 in it.  Very easy to see the effects I mention by holding the piece over a print.

[Colorwave]

Yes, the P99 achieves it's non-glare properties by having a very etched surface on one side.  It's the stuff that really suffers from any distance between artwork and glazing.

[JeffKohn]

I tried the non-glare stuff with the etched surface, and didn't like it. I'm not sure what brand it was, though. (Frame Destination has the Acrylite logo on their site now, but I don't know if that's what they've always carried as this was a few years ago).

It seemed to 'dull' the print, both in terms of contrast and fine detail. And the surface of the glazing itself obscures any surface qualities of the paper itself.

I've seen the museum glass in framing shops and it really is amazing stuff. Almost completely invisible, and in fact I think for prints on glossy paper it actually looks better than non glazing at all. From what I've heard it's difficult to handle though. The glass may not be any more breakable, but apparently coating is pretty delicate.

[Dward]

[quote name='framah' date='Aug 6 2009, 12:19 PM' post='302292']

By the way, glass is glass. Neither is harder than the other. It scores and breaks exactly like other glass. It scores better if you score it on the side it tells you to.  

Actually, there is substantial variation in hardness (and more relevantly, brittleness) among different glasses:  pure silica, soda-silica, various flint glasses, glasses with various metallic additives etc, etc.    See for example this patent:


 High-hardness silica glass and method of producing the same
United States Patent 4981503

Abstract:
High-hardness silica glass having transparency substantially on the same level as silica glass and a Vickers hardness of 12-20 GPa is produced by covering silica glass with powder and treating the silica glass at a temperature of 1400°-2500° C. and a pressure of 10-300 MPa in an atmosphere of an inert gas or a nitrogen gas.

And yes, it is quite important to score on the proper side!

David V. Ward, Ph. D.
www.dvward.com
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography

[framah]

Sorry, David... i was referring to the glasses used in picture framing. I'm sure there is alot of stuff out there  that we would be amazed to know about.