Hasselblad H3DII-22 vs 5D Mark II

[loick]

for those who have the two cameras : Hasselblad H3DII-22 and Canon 5D mark II or 1Ds Mark III or Sony A900 or Nikon D3X   (same number of pixels)  do you see a real IQ difference?
do you  know any comparative tests on Internet ?

of course a t 100 ISO

thank you

[EricWHiss]

Hi,
I recently compared my now old Phase P20 back against my new canon 5DII, and my Leica DMR.   Both the P20 and the Leica DMR (which only has 10mpix) seemed to resolve finer detail than the canon 5D mk II which surprised me as it has more pixels across the frame.   I used Capture 1 software for all three files.  I had the cameras on a tripod and shot with mirror up, etc.      No doubt if I shot at ISO 800 or higher, I'd be saying the canon file was the best.    I don't much about the nikons or Hasselblad backs but I'd expect the difference to be similar since since the Phase sensor and H3d-22 are similar Kodak 9micron non micro lens chips.    

Eric

for those who have the two cameras : Hasselblad H3DII-22 and Canon 5D mark II or 1Ds Mark III or Sony A900 or Nikon D3X   (same number of pixels)  do you see a real IQ difference?
do you  know any comparative tests on Internet ?

thank you

[loick]

I am only interested by 100 and 200 ISO  maximum
I'd really like to  know someone with this 2 cameras  because I found an Hasselblad 22mp

thank you Eric

[Gary Yeowell]

Eric,

My guess is you are using Canon zooms on your 5D2 I have owned both a Phase P20 on a Blad with some of the best Zeiss glass, i also owned a Leica M8 with some of the best Leica glass, having tested both against my 1DS3 with primes all processed in Capture One i would conclude that in terms of detail resolution the 1DS3 is the best, P20 second and last the Leica M8. However in terms of colour i like the Leica the most for daylight pics and the Canon for the longer exposures.

What is surprising is how good a P20 still looks and how well the files handle heavy post work, being very robust, but on purely detail rendering alone, and of course cropping the Phase file to rectangle, IMO the Canon wins .

Gary,

[bernardo68]

i have both, the h3-22-1  as well as the ds3  (and the hd31-2)- and you can´t compare- very different handling ,different tools.
 especially withthe new phocus software- the h-file at the requested asa100 is unbeatable.
quite different situation  at higher isospeeds (more than 200) and  then especially in the shadows -the canon wins highly- (for that i bought the 31),
anyway tonalty and especially skinton out of the box is a different league with the h22.
but for me much more important was the style of photography- slower,more controlled, better ratio  for portraets 3:4  and the high fash sync for outdoors, that makes it the tool of choice for people shots.
for kids and action the canon comes to work-
so it mainly depends on your work what to use.
i would go for the hassy if you like to improve photographystyle
cheers
bernhard

[EricWHiss]

Eric,

My guess is you are using Canon zooms on your 5D2 I have owned both a Phase P20 on a Blad with some of the best Zeiss glass, i also owned a Leica M8 with some of the best Leica glass, having tested both against my 1DS3 with primes all processed in Capture One i would conclude that in terms of detail resolution the 1DS3 is the best, P20 second and last the Leica M8. However in terms of colour i like the Leica the most for daylight pics and the Canon for the longer exposures.

What is surprising is how good a P20 still looks and how well the files handle heavy post work, being very robust, but on purely detail rendering alone, and of course cropping the Phase file to rectangle, IMO the Canon wins .

Gary,

Gary we agree on the robustness of the p20, but I would not say that the canon color is better or has more detail.    In my informal tests both detail and color were better with my p20 than the canon 5D2.   But how much depends on the lenses? That's a good question.   Let me sort of  turn your own question around on you - Are you sure your 'Blad with zeiss lenses were 'All That'?  A lot of the 'blad lenses are old designs optically.  What lens were you shooting your 1Ds3 with?  I'm actually a bit surprised to read you thought so highly of your 1Ds3.  I wonder how much difference there is between 1Ds3 and 5D2?
     
The lens question might have some bearing on which format a person might choose.  Are the MF lenses better overall than the 35mm?   I dunno - but maybe? Certainly its handy to have the leaf shutters, too.   In specific to your findings...I don't doubt the zeiss lenses are good, but don't discount the rollei scheider lenses or assume that the two are equivalent.   In my own evaluation, I prefer the schneider glass.  

Regarding my tests:  Yes canon zoom - the 24-104 IS. Lot's of people seem to feel its not too bad by canon standards - I dunno - but it does vignette and has a fair bit of distortion but it has decent sharpness.   I had the 35-70 leica zoom on the DMR and the 60mm curtagon on the Rollei.       The lens selection was what it was because I wanted to keep the tripod in roughly the same point and that's what I had in my 'bag' at the time.   I could have mounted the leica 100mm apo onto the canon, but  then I could have also used the Rollei/Schneider 90mm APO macro!  But in most cases, I'll be using the canon for convenience so the AF zoom with IS made more sense in the testing.    



Eric

[Gary Yeowell]

Eric,

I think if you read my post you will see that i did not say i preferred the Canon to the Phase for colour, only for detail rendering against a cropped P20, but for colour on long exposures which i consider the Phase to be at it's weakest. Regarding the Zeiss lenses i used to use on the Blad: 40CFEIF latest, 60CF, 100CFI, 120CFI, 180CFI, 250SA, which i consider to be their better (best) glass, but agree with you on Schneider glass as well, it's very good.

With my 1DS3 i use a very good copy of the 24f1.4L (not far behind the 21mm Contax i used previously for sharpness and fringing, and much better at straight lines) a Leica 35f2.8 Elmarit , 50f1.2L, 85f1.2L, Contax Zeiss 100f3.5, Leica 180f2.8 Elmarit(non APO).  To be honest i am more than satisfied with sharpness and detail rendering from my 1DS3 with these lenses, however less happy with Canon's idea of colour, being way too sensitive to the red channel...... given the choice i would have an aptus 75 over anything else i've seen digitally for daylight, trouble is i do lots of dusk and night pic's and most of the backs (at least older generation) seem to suffer.

One last point, i have tried many times various versions of the Canon 16-35/24-70/28-70/24-105 and have always been dissapointed optically, and for me also i like how fixed lenses make me slow down in the way Bernardo mentioned.

Regards,
Gary.

[EricWHiss]

Eric,

I think if you read my post you will see that i did not say i preferred the Canon to the Phase for colour, only for detail rendering against a cropped P20, but for colour on long exposures which i consider the Phase to be at it's weakest. Regarding the Zeiss lenses i used to use on the Blad: 40CFEIF latest, 60CF, 100CFI, 120CFI, 180CFI, 250SA, which i consider to be their better (best) glass, but agree with you on Schneider glass as well, it's very good.

With my 1DS3 i use a very good copy of the 24f1.4L (not far behind the 21mm Contax i used previously for sharpness and fringing, and much better at straight lines) a Leica 35f2.8 Elmarit , 50f1.2L, 85f1.2L, Contax Zeiss 100f3.5, Leica 180f2.8 Elmarit(non APO).  To be honest i am more than satisfied with sharpness and detail rendering from my 1DS3 with these lenses, however less happy with Canon's idea of colour, being way too sensitive to the red channel...... given the choice i would have an aptus 75 over anything else i've seen digitally for daylight, trouble is i do lots of dusk and night pic's and most of the backs (at least older generation) seem to suffer.

One last point, i have tried many times various versions of the Canon 16-35/24-70/28-70/24-105 and have always been dissapointed optically, and for me also i like how fixed lenses make me slow down in the way Bernardo mentioned.

Regards,
Gary.

Gary,
Sorry if I misread your post.  I'm mixed about the canon zooms mostly because this is the camera I use for convenience and the zoom definitely adds that.   The one canon zoom that I was always pleased with was the 70-200 f/4.  

Back to topic - I can't see how a person could choose to have only one camera or the other unless it was for a specific dedicated job. Both have their strengths.  

Eric

[Gary Yeowell]

Gary,
Sorry if I misread your post.  I'm mixed about the canon zooms mostly because this is the camera I use for convenience and the zoom definitely adds that.   The one canon zoom that I was always pleased with was the 70-200 f/4.  

Back to topic - I can't see how a person could choose to have only one camera or the other unless it was for a specific dedicated job. Both have their strengths.  

Eric

I agree!! but my other camera is a Mamiya 7 as i'm one of the strange breed of photographers who still shoots a fair bit of film.

Gary.

[loick]

then looking at your answers it is not 100% sure that H3D II 22 shows a real difference with a Canon 5D Mark II @ iSO 100  for portrait , still life and landscape photography, with of course bests lenses on both systems tripod miror lock up  ... and so on ?

I owned a P45+ and Hasselblad H2 sold 6 month ago and the difference with 1Ds Mark III (for me ) was evident ,  but it is difficult to compare 39mp and 21 mp

[eronald]

I wouldn't compare with a 5DII, I find that camera to be soft. The Nikon D3x has more "bite", and I guess the D700x or whatever they call it will be the real camera to beat - there is also the Sony A900 which Michael owns- he should have an informed opinion.

MF outresolves everything else and definitely has better color; it also costs at least 5x the price and is a real nuisance to use - heavy, less DOF, shake, too little ISO, center point focus only and forget fast AF tracking.

Edmund

then looking at your answers it is not 100% sure that H3D II 22 shows a real difference with a Canon 5D Mark II @ iSO 100  for portrait , still life and landscape photography, with of course bests lenses on both systems tripod miror lock up  ... and so on ?

I owned a P45+ and Hasselblad H2 sold 6 month ago and the difference with 1Ds Mark III (for me ) was evident ,  but it is difficult to compare 39mp and 21 mp

[erick.boileau]

I dont need fast AF , central  AF is enough for me and 200 ISO is my maximum

[eronald]

I dont need fast AF , central  AF is enough for me and 200 ISO is my maximum

If you are doing portraits, then off-center AF comes in real handy

Edmund