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Author Topic: 8x10/MFDB Comparison  (Read 70207 times)

Murray Fredericks

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8x10/MFDB Comparison
« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2010, 07:08:16 pm »

Quote from: DanielStone
were you loading your film in a changing bag/tent in the field just out of curiosity? still, that's a good bit of post time. I've only shot in the desert once, and I can vouch what you state about sand getting *everywhere*, I had to change socks and undies twice that day


were you shooting chromes or negs for your salt series? I've only recently started shooting 8x10, its like looking at a small TV screen ! I think that I'll stick with  4x5 chromes(E100G, Provia/velvia when I run out of Kodak) and negs(efke 25, TMX 100, portra 160nc)



-Dan


Dan,

For the 'SALT' series I was changing in a harrison dark bag, washing my hands before, carrying everything 'sealed' in multi-layered bags. I took air in cans and inspected each slide meticulously and tapping any 'rocks' out of the light traps.

'Commando' is easier for the clothes thing

I shot nearly all neg (portra NC) and occasionally went to chrome (E100S) for the really flat stuff.

As I said earlier, the biggest problem was getting smooth development of the open skies - this is where digital wins hands down...

Murray
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DanielStone

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« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2010, 09:50:00 pm »

Quote from: Murray Fredericks
Dan,

For the 'SALT' series I was changing in a harrison dark bag, washing my hands before, carrying everything 'sealed' in multi-layered bags. I took air in cans and inspected each slide meticulously and tapping any 'rocks' out of the light traps.

'Commando' is easier for the clothes thing

I shot nearly all neg (portra NC) and occasionally went to chrome (E100S) for the really flat stuff.

As I said earlier, the biggest problem was getting smooth development of the open skies - this is where digital wins hands down...

Murray


hear ya there . Smooth development for color with the short dev. time(c-41 mostly) can be a PITA. I have only shot e-6 in 8x10 for color, no c-41(yet), but lots of 4x5. I develop in Jobo drums on a motor base, so the rotary constant, random, motion helps to keep things from mottling too much. E-6 i ship out for dip-n-dunk. There's a lab here in Santa Barbara that does E-6 4x5 for $1.50/sheet and $5/sheet for 8x10, its Samys in downtown Santa Barbara.    just in case you thought about switching labs ever. they take mail order, and have a super-fast turnaround, usually within a day. I've never had a problem with them. and they have a good amount of throughput, since Santa Barbara has enough artist "purists" and students who shoot e6 to keep the lines busy, also to help keep processing costs down too! Labs here in LA average about $4-5/sheet for 4x5 and about $8-10 for 8x10 film. e-6 and c-41.

most people just do their own b/w.

if I could afford a P65+ or an Aptus-II 10, I'd shoot with one, but even though I'm 21, I HATE sitting behind a computer, much less photoshop. I guess I'm just kinda "old-fashioned", I like hand writing letters instead of email if its possible, and mailing parcels to me is fun . I guess this is why I shoot film, for the process, rather than the end result. But right now I don't have the resources to invest in a digital system that could match the rez I can get out of a 4x5 or 8x10 piece of c-41/e6/bw film. Canons and nikons are nice, and the D3x has a place in my heart, but MF digital just isn't in reach as of yet.

thanks for the info, its great learning about your process! One more question if I may, are you using a folding-camera, since you're out there in the boonies, or a rail camera?

-Dan
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Murray Fredericks

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8x10/MFDB Comparison
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2010, 11:03:33 pm »

Quote from: DanielStone
hear ya there . Smooth development for color with the short dev. time(c-41 mostly) can be a PITA.
thanks for the info, its great learning about your process! One more question if I may, are you using a folding-camera, since you're out there in the boonies, or a rail camera?

-Dan


Had I continued shooting mostly c-41 with open skies I would have gone down the jobo path. Never had much of a problem with E-6...

Only lab I could find that did it right was light waves in SanFran...

I use a Toyo field camera...

Cheers

Murray
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2010, 06:59:39 am »

Quote from: DanielStone
if I could afford a P65+ or an Aptus-II 10, I'd shoot with one, but even though I'm 21, I HATE sitting behind a computer, much less photoshop. I guess I'm just kinda "old-fashioned", I like hand writing letters instead of email if its possible, and mailing parcels to me is fun . I guess this is why I shoot film, for the process, rather than the end result. But right now I don't have the resources to invest in a digital system that could match the rez I can get out of a 4x5 or 8x10 piece of c-41/e6/bw film.
MF digital just isn't in reach as of yet.
-Dan
I am old and ill, and I would like to find someone like you to work with me, help me get a return on my investment and take over when I retire.

...but LA is a long way from Warwickshire, and it would need to be someone who likes Photoshop.
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MarkIV

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« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2010, 11:23:11 am »

Quote from: aaron
Huh? I read the thread and drew the opposite conclusion which was that 8x10 will murder any mfdb, no surprises there.  

That is because they did not read the thread...    
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 11:23:43 am by MarkIV »
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DanielStone

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« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2010, 01:02:41 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
I am old and ill, and I would like to find someone like you to work with me, help me get a return on my investment and take over when I retire.

...but LA is a long way from Warwickshire, and it would need to be someone who likes Photoshop.


Hey Dick,

I'd like to talk to you more about this, but yes, unfortunately, LA is a long way from the UK, so it probably won't work. BTW I LOVE photoshop, the amount of control it gives me is great. What I hate is sitting in front of a computer for long amounts of time. The more I use photoshop(as with anything I guess), the better, and faster I become. But I'm a photographer, not a digital tech or retoucher. I want to know how to do it, but I can't get out from behind the camera to really get down to learning it. But that'll have to change.

just out of curiosity, what do you shoot? do you have a website I could look at?

-Dan
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fredjeang

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8x10/MFDB Comparison
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2010, 01:17:27 pm »

I think delegating is the healphiest attitude. You can learn to be better with Photoshop, but you are photographer and will never reach the master of proper digital retoucher and printer, because they do that full time and adquire a 6th sense in their particular area.
Delegating is the best way, it is a wonderfull human experience and you save time and energy for your art, and trust others to make their art for your purpose.

I think Dick is right.

Fred.
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michele

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« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2010, 02:19:35 pm »

Quote from: fredjeang
I think delegating is the healphiest attitude. You can learn to be better with Photoshop, but you are photographer and will never reach the master of proper digital retoucher and printer, because they do that full time and adquire a 6th sense in their particular area.
Delegating is the best way, it is a wonderfull human experience and you save time and energy for your art, and trust others to make their art for your purpose.

I think Dick is right.

Fred.

Well, i'm a photographer and also a retoucher. I'm not the best in both, but i think i'm growing and getting better results day by day. Being a photographer that work with photoshop makes me faster, better and i descover more things, if i was just a retoucher i wouldn't understand many aspects of photoshop or how to do something. But i'm also a photographer, i know the light, i know how to take photographs that has to be retouched. I'm into the process in both side, and i think this is a great way to approach many problems. I take photos and play with photoshop fulltime. I know that many retouchers cannot reach my level because they are not photographers first... Of course i will never be the master of photoshop, but this is because i'm not good enough  By the way, my clients call me because i can deliver a final image and because my taste and my "style" are made of photographs+photoshop and i can create images that are more what they want. Just my way to make photographs

fredjeang

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8x10/MFDB Comparison
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2010, 04:08:13 pm »

Quote from: michele
Well, i'm a photographer and also a retoucher. I'm not the best in both, but i think i'm growing and getting better results day by day. Being a photographer that work with photoshop makes me faster, better and i descover more things, if i was just a retoucher i wouldn't understand many aspects of photoshop or how to do something. But i'm also a photographer, i know the light, i know how to take photographs that has to be retouched. I'm into the process in both side, and i think this is a great way to approach many problems. I take photos and play with photoshop fulltime. I know that many retouchers cannot reach my level because they are not photographers first... Of course i will never be the master of photoshop, but this is because i'm not good enough  By the way, my clients call me because i can deliver a final image and because my taste and my "style" are made of photographs+photoshop and i can create images that are more what they want. Just my way to make photographs
Michele,
In my understanding, the way you work with retouching, beeing and knowing also photography is the best. Isn't it a renaissance way of working?

Fred.
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michele

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« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2010, 04:40:39 pm »

Yes it is

Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2010, 05:40:26 pm »

I think that delegating works best if you understand the process that you delegate...

I do not want to delegate, and what I like about digital is being in total control.

...I think that so many photographers now do not take the trouble to "get it right in camera" and rely on someone else to post-process their work into something usable.
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pcunite

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« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2010, 08:26:22 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
...I think that so many photographers now do not take the trouble to "get it right in camera" and rely on someone else to post-process their work into something usable.

Sadly I do this from time to time. A gum wrapper on the floor? Ahh I'll clone it out later...
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CBarrett

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« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2010, 08:50:55 pm »

Quote from: Dick Roadnight
I think that delegating works best if you understand the process that you delegate...

I do not want to delegate, and what I like about digital is being in total control.

...I think that so many photographers now do not take the trouble to "get it right in camera" and rely on someone else to post-process their work into something usable.


For years, shooting interiors we were always climbing ladders to remove Exit signs from the ceiling.  Now that I'm shooting digital.... yeah we still take them down... if it can be done better and faster in the field, why not?  I call it Realityshop.
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JoeKitchen

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« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2010, 09:46:52 pm »

Quote from: CBarrett
For years, shooting interiors we were always climbing ladders to remove Exit signs from the ceiling.  Now that I'm shooting digital.... yeah we still take them down... if it can be done better and faster in the field, why not?  I call it Realityshop.
You can remove exit signs physically?  With out tools or getting the in trouble from the electricians?  

I am going to have look up how to do this.
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CBarrett

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« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2010, 09:59:41 pm »

Quote from: JoeKitchen
You can remove exit signs physically?  With out tools or getting the in trouble from the electricians?  

I am going to have look up how to do this.

LoL.... the majority of them (in the US) are mounted on quick release spring clips and either just slide down or are hinged on one side... the easy ones have simple plug connectors on the wiring and drop out pretty easily.  If they are hard wired I leave them alone but will still cover them with a white card since they typically throw green or red light across the ceiling.  I've had people give me grief on site for removing them, what can I say... we get away with what we can to make the best shot  : )
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TMARK

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« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2010, 06:27:13 pm »

Quote from: JoeKitchen
You can remove exit signs physically?  With out tools or getting the in trouble from the electricians?  

I am going to have look up how to do this.

Leatherman Tools!

I've removed stop signs, street signs, mailboxes, bus stops . . . .
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putri

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Re: 8x10/MFDB Comparison
« Reply #116 on: August 29, 2010, 09:39:37 am »

which back is equivalent to an 8x10 neg resolution?
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putri

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Re: 8x10/MFDB Comparison
« Reply #117 on: August 29, 2010, 11:14:56 am »

did u get an answer than about 8x10 vs mfdb? im interested too as i shoot 8x10!!
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feppe

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Re: 8x10/MFDB Comparison
« Reply #118 on: August 29, 2010, 11:59:28 am »

did u get an answer than about 8x10 vs mfdb? im interested too as i shoot 8x10!!

There are six pages of answers to that question in this very thread.

Dick Roadnight

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Re: 8x10/MFDB Comparison
« Reply #119 on: August 29, 2010, 12:56:28 pm »

which back is equivalent to an 8x10 neg resolution?
How long is a piece of string?
What film are you using?

Someone said that 40 Mpx is equivalent to 5 * 4, so you would need 160.

The old yardstick was that you could enlarge from film up to 10* the neg size, and the new yardstick is 360 original camera pixels per print inch...

So for film you get 2.25" * 10 = 22.5 inches from  2.25" 120 MF roll film,...

and form a 60Mpx H4D-60 or P65 + you get 9,000 pixels/360 = 25 inches,,,

So, using the 360 original camera pixels per print inch yardstick, silicon is little higher res than film.

If you use 180 as your yardstick, 645 MDF is equivalent to 5 * 4.

If you use the right yardstick, or compare to low-res high speed sheet film, 60Mpx is equivalent to  10 * 8".

...like I said, how long is your piece of string?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 02:10:37 pm by Dick Roadnight »
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