Hasselblad Phocus, TIFF/TIFF-16/PSD, profiles and color spaces

[KLaban]

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[marc gerritsen]

Hi Keith
when I export an FFF file in phocus I can choose tiff 16 bit
seems to work fine, I am using phocus V 1.0.1 on a mac
if you really want psd file open the tiff and save as psd it will stay 16 bit.
just did it, to make sure I could
cheers
m

[Pete_G]

Hi all

At last I'm working with Hasselblad Phocus - 1.2.1 - rather than FlexColor. I've a few queries about exporting and about profiles and color spaces.

Once exported from Phocus I want to make additional edits in Photoshop. If I export as a TIFF-16 I end up with a 16 bit Microsoft Office Document Imaging File with an embedded Hasselblad RGB colour profile. If I export as a .psd I end up with only an 8 bit .psd rather than 16 bit.

When I open the 16 bit Microsoft Office Document Imaging File in Photoshop I get an Embedded Profile Mismatch = Embedded: Hasselblad RGB Working: Adobe RGB (1998). Now, should I use the embedded profile (Hasselblad RGB) instead of the working space (Adobe RGB 1998), or should I convert the document's colors to the working space (Adobe RGB 1998)? Or should I perhaps create a new color space for Hasselblad RGB? What are other Hasselblad Phocus users here doing?

Alternatively, is there any way of exporting from Phocus as a 16 bit .psd?

Any help would be much appreciated.

TIA

Keith




PS apologies, I've cross posted these questions as I need to sort this out ASAP.

Keith,

I'm not sure why your tif is reported as being an MS Office Document Imaging File, it sounds like MS Office has just bunged a default label onto what is otherwise a normal tif. It could be that you have set "Hide file extensions of known filetypes" to YES in Folder Options (I'm assuming your in Windows, it sounds like a Windows thing)

As to not getting the correct profile in the tif, this is probably to do with the settings of the Phocus Export Tool. Get your image up in Phocus and click on the EXPORT icon below the top main menu, click on the EDIT button next to "Output Preset", you will notice that the setting for TIFF-16 output profile is set to Source, ie Hasselblad RGB, click on the little Padlock icon and change the Output Profile to whatever you prefer, probably ProPhoto RGB. Click the padlock again to lock the settings.

In the case of PSD make sure you choose PSD-16 for a 16 bit image.

regards

pete

[AlexM]

What I do want to avoid is sending clients "Microsoft Office Document Imaging Files" rather than TIFs ;-)

If you save it as TIF it's TIF, no matter how Windows calls it, so your clients will have them as TIFs even if their Windows too calls them differently

One of the ways to get your graphic file extensions organized is to install ACD See Pro. Maybe try a trial version. It gives them nice icons and proper names. I don't know if it'll stay when you uninstall the program.

Or in XP you can go to an open folder menu: Tool->Folder Options->File Types, Find TIF and TIFF there and use Advanced to change the details or Change to change the associations.

For Photoshop go to Edit->Color Settings. In Color Management Policies set RGB to Preserve...

[Dustbak]

You can alter the association of the extention .tiff/.tif within Windows to Photoshop instead of Office. From that moment on Windows will open Tiff files with PS instead of trying to open them with the Office Document viewer.  Windows has a list of file extentions and a list of applications to which those extentions are associated. It merely says something about which application Windows will use to open a certain file nothing about the file itself. Your file will remain the same! A .tiff/.tif file will remain just that.

PSD file format has nothing to do with the colorspace the file is in (in principle). The color space you save your file in will determine whether or not you will loose information from the original Hasselblad color space. This is why many people work in  ProPhotoRGB or ECIRGB which are very large colorspaces. PSD can be be used as a file extention with either one of those or other colorspaces.

With large files I found Tiff saves and opens much faster than PSD, with Mac that is. I have no longer any reference with Windows machines.

In the export window of Phocus I can choose PSD 16bit. If it is not in the default outputs choose edit (at the output preset), choose the + sign and add the PSD file format with 16bits, save it as a new output preset and you are done.

[Dustbak]

... so hopefully clients will not be baffled by the file type or icon.

Keith

I am afraid that remains to be seen. Depending on the way the clients computers are setup and their own knowledge you can still have all sorts of problems. I have seen all sorts of stuff and unfortunately most clients start calling you first instead of looking for the problem themselves let alone solving them. In 99,99% of all cases the problem turned out to be on the clients side and in most clients they blamed me for it  

I have had clients complaining about the fact my colors might be right but since their screens are way too blue and really shitty my files needed to look good on those screes and not on my screens (or on any high-end calibrated screen, try argueing with that).
I delivered the wrong file when it printed green on an office deskjet printer.
I was to blame when they had the wrong password in their browsercache for the ftp site or simply forgot their password.
Some are baffled you cannot email a 224MB tiff file let alone a set of 50 images.
The amount of time I spend in solving all sorts of client side problems is immense, I sometimes just want to scream, 'go get a clue and educate yourself or hire a system administrator that knows his stuff! ' or even much worse depending on the mood I am in

You can solve the non-showing extention or the association on your own machine but it doesn't say anything about what is going to happen on your clients machine.

[jimgolden]

sorta O/T, I shot a job all day on my 5D for a magazine tethered into lightroom. man, what a breeze compared to H322 and phocus - it was just easier and those multiple focus points AND a vertical grip - my my - I might be turning a corner on the my MFDB days...as my digital magazine sits in Denmark waiting on an out of warranty repair - I might drop the repair $$ on a 5D2 and not look back...

[jimgolden]

Sorta O/T, but my camera is permanently bolted to a tripod, the only things I point the camera at are stationary, ISO 50 is all I ever need and one focus point is overkill.

I've tried using the small format DLSRs but can't even get past the viewfinders or the 3:2 format.

Love the H3D11

i love mine too, and I'm in the same boat, bolted, stationary, ISO 50...but it is nice to pick up something different, refreshing I suppose. the viewfinder + format do suck tho...

[Dick Roadnight]

Hi all

At last I'm working with Hasselblad Phocus - 1.2.1 - rather than FlexColor. I've a few queries about exporting and about profiles and color spaces.

Alternatively, is there any way of exporting from Phocus as a 16 bit .psd?

Keith

Lightroom says that TIFF is better than .psd for exporting to photoshop, so use the TIFF - 16 option.

Do you not use Lightroom or ACR? They can do things that Phocus cannot.

I am using the Hasselblad RGB colour space - has anyone any experience of this? Is it optimized for getting the best out of Hasselblad files?

The point-and-shoot mode could be useful, but I think that you can only get "better than 25 Mpx Canon" results by using flash or a tripod.

[Greg Hollmann]

I too would like to know more about 'Hasselblad RGB', is it a wider color space than Adobe RGB (1998)?

Here is a graph showing Adobe 1998 in color on the inside and the Hasselblad RGB color space grayed out in the background:
[attachment=15853:Picture_2.png]

[Greg Hollmann]

Hi all

At last I'm working with Hasselblad Phocus - 1.2.1 - rather than FlexColor. I've a few queries about exporting and about profiles and color spaces.

Once exported from Phocus I want to make additional edits in Photoshop. If I export as a TIFF-16 I end up with a 16 bit Microsoft Office Document Imaging File with an embedded Hasselblad RGB colour profile. If I export as a .psd I end up with only an 8 bit .psd rather than 16 bit.

When I open the 16 bit Microsoft Office Document Imaging File in Photoshop I get an Embedded Profile Mismatch = Embedded: Hasselblad RGB Working: Adobe RGB (1998). Now, should I use the embedded profile (Hasselblad RGB) instead of the working space (Adobe RGB 1998), or should I convert the document's colors to the working space (Adobe RGB 1998)? Or should I perhaps create a new color space for Hasselblad RGB? What are other Hasselblad Phocus users here doing?

Alternatively, is there any way of exporting from Phocus as a 16 bit .psd?

Any help would be much appreciated.

TIA

Keith

PS apologies, I've cross posted these questions as I need to sort this out ASAP.

Keith,

When you export an image a dialogue box will appear that allows you to not only select a preset file format, but also to create your own.  PSD 8 bit is the default, but if you click the plus sign at the bottom of the list of presets you can create a custom file format, including a PSD 16bit.  Here you can also select the corresponding output colorspace; adobe 1998 for example.

Under preferences you will see the "select image editor"  choice, here you can select which program will open by default when you double click or open a particular exported image.

Greg

[Greg Hollmann]

Greg, many thanks for the graph, very interesting.

I'm sorry, I should have updated this thread sooner. I'm now exporting as 'Source', i.e. retaining Hasselblad RGB. The only time I will export as PSD will be when I want the layered PSDs with moire correction.

Thanks again for your help.

Keith

You're welcome Keith.

Just so you know, you do now also have the ability to save two or more images, pin registered together, as either a 8 or 16 bit PSD.

Greg

[Dick Roadnight]

Here is a graph showing Adobe 1998 in color on the inside and the Hasselblad RGB color space grayed out in the background:
[attachment=15853:Picture_2.png]

Greg... Thank you very much.

Is the Hasselblad RGB colour space also bigger than ProPhoto RGB and DCAM3, and does it include all the colours that the Hasselblads can produce?

I have an Epson Stylus PRO 7900 pinter, so I want to preserve all the data I can.

I have been told:

 "Hasselblad RGB is NOT a working space, thus it is
very unlikely to be suitable for image editing.

Hasselblad RGB is used as the "source" or device " colour space, in a
conversion to a Photoshop Working Space."

Is this true?

Is Hasselblad RGB intended as a Photoshop working Colour Space?

Dick Roadnight