Topic: Contax 645 + Digital Back (Read 6906 times)

LazzarosPhoto · « **on:** July 18, 2009, 12:11:49 pm »

Hello all.

I'm starting my career as fashion photographer and I did a great deal with a NEW Contax 645 kit.

Now I'm looking for new lenses and a digital back.

I know all of this is pretty expensive but I have to start looking about it to know how much money I can spend on this equipment.

About digital back I don't need 40+ Mp for now. I'd be glad with 16Mp...

Wich one do you suggest?

Many thanks,
Ivo

Nick_T · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2009, 02:47:22 am »

Quote from: LazzarosPhoto

Hello all.

I'm starting my career as fashion photographer and I did a great deal with a NEW Contax 645 kit.

Now I'm looking for new lenses and a digital back.

Bear in mind that a 16MP back will moire much more than say a 31MP..

Nick-T

Carsten W · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2009, 04:45:17 am »

Quote from: Nick_T

Bear in mind that a 16MP back will moire much more than say a 31MP..

Nick-T

I guess you will get the same answers here as on getdpi. The Sinar eMotion 54 LV can be had used from Sinar for about €4800. That is a current 22MP back, albeit a low-end one at this point, with a 1.1 crop factor instead of the 1.3 of the 16MP backs. You buy an adapter for your system (I also use Contax), but can change it yourself, so it will be easier to sell later on than a back with a fixed mount, like the Phase One or Leaf backs.

tho_mas · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:08:52 am »

Quote from: carstenw

I guess you will get the same answers here as on getdpi. The Sinar eMotion 54 LV can be had used from Sinar for about €4800. That is a current 22MP back, albeit a low-end one at this point, with a 1.1 crop factor instead of the 1.3 of the 16MP backs. You buy an adapter for your system (I also use Contax), but can change it yourself, so it will be easier to sell later on than a back with a fixed mount, like the Phase One or Leaf backs.

Regarding moire the eM54LV is the same as a P20, P21, P25 as they all have 9microns pixels. I assume Nick-T mentioned the 31MP for it's smaller pixelpitch (6.8 microns).

Carsten W · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:15:58 am »

Quote from: tho_mas

Regarding moire the eM54LV is the same as a P20, P21, P25 as they all have 9microns pixels. I assume Nick-T mentioned the 31MP for it's smaller pixelpitch (6.8 microns).

While true, I mentioned the e54LV for its price, since the price is a blocking factor for the OP. The 31MP backs are easily twice as expensive...

tho_mas · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:29:44 am »

Quote from: carstenw

While true, I mentioned the e54LV for its price, since the price is a blocking factor for the OP. The 31MP backs are easily twice as expensive...

ah, okay. You've quoted Nick so my reading was you are refering to moire...

LazzarosPhoto · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2009, 03:12:31 pm »

Comparing with PhaseOne P21+ what do you think about Sinar eMotion 54 LV remembering that I had an offer for PhaseOne for 3000€.

ThierryH · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2009, 04:05:30 pm »

The P21 and the eMotion 54 LV feature 2 different sensors, 18 MPx (P21) vs 22 MPx (e54 LV), with about the same frame rate (60 per min). IMO, the eMotion series of backs have one wonderful and unique feature among the different manufacturers: there is, beside the classical CF card provided by all, an internal storage possibility of 4 GB, which an be used in addition to the CF card storage (double security) or instead the CF card. It makes the eMotion backs also absolutely free of any buffer-slowdown and provides therefore a continuous shooting rate.

Beside these feature, the Sinarbacks offer the traditional "adapter system", allowing to use the very same back on any common MF platform.

Thierry

Quote from: LazzarosPhoto

Comparing with PhaseOne P21+ what do you think about Sinar eMotion 54 LV remembering that I had an offer for PhaseOne for 3000€.

JDG · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2009, 04:16:21 pm »

If you are getting into fashion, its probably most important to consider the software workflow. Shooting tethered on set you will find backs from Phase One and Leaf to have a great workflow.... I've always tried to avoid working with Sinar on fashion shoots because the software was just not set up for it. Ive done it a few times with Capture Shop, and it did not work smoothly, would have been OK for Still life though. Have not tried the newer Exposure. Just my 2 cents.

ThierryH · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2009, 04:21:14 pm »

While you are certainly right when mentioning Captureshop not being adapted to a "fashion workflow" (although I know some fashion photographers using it successfully), eXposure is a completely different "beast" and does work efficiently in such a workflow.

Thierry

Quote from: JDG

If you are getting into fashion, its probably most important to consider the software workflow. Shooting tethered on set you will find backs from Phase One and Leaf to have a great workflow.... I've always tried to avoid working with Sinar on fashion shoots because the software was just not set up for it. Ive done it a few times with Capture Shop, and it did not work smoothly, would have been OK for Still life though. Have not tried the newer Exposure. Just my 2 cents.

Voltman · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2009, 05:32:09 pm »

Quote from: LazzarosPhoto

Hello all.

I'm starting my career as fashion photographer and I did a great deal with a NEW Contax 645 kit.

Now I'm looking for new lenses and a digital back.

I know all of this is pretty expensive but I have to start looking about it to know how much money I can spend on this equipment.

About digital back I don't need 40+ Mp for now. I'd be glad with 16Mp...

Wich one do you suggest?

Many thanks,
Ivo

Ivo,

How much is your starting budget and what are your goals? If you're on a really tight budget perhaps you should consider a Kodak DCS Pro Back for C645. Although its 16MP and only 14 bit A/D, and has moire issues like the rest, you can probably pick one up very cheaply. Perhaps contact Capture Integration and find out if they have anything to offer. Sometimes you'll see these on E-Bay for 2000-2500 USD. When you consider the costs of an adapter plate for other backs alone the Kodak becomes an inexpensive alternative to get started. As for moire reduction if you find that a real issue Kodak made an A/A filter which I occasionally have seen on E-Bay.

It's a great back to start learning workflow and actually if your target market is small form print then it may fit you fine for getting started ... see http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....amp;qpid=298657 for an older but still relevant review of this back.

clawery · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2009, 09:16:28 pm »

Quote from: Voltman

Ivo,

How much is your starting budget and what are your goals? If you're on a really tight budget perhaps you should consider a Kodak DCS Pro Back for C645. Although its 16MP and only 14 bit A/D, and has moire issues like the rest, you can probably pick one up very cheaply. Perhaps contact Capture Integration and find out if they have anything to offer. Sometimes you'll see these on E-Bay for 2000-2500 USD. When you consider the costs of an adapter plate for other backs alone the Kodak becomes an inexpensive alternative to get started. As for moire reduction if you find that a real issue Kodak made an A/A filter which I occasionally have seen on E-Bay.

It's a great back to start learning workflow and actually if your target market is small form print then it may fit you fine for getting started ... see http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....amp;qpid=298657 for an older but still relevant review of this back.

You might want to consider the Phase One P30 or P31+. It's a 31MP back that is great for people / fashion. It has micro-lenses that help prevent moire. To see some test files go to our web site and take a look:

http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/

Chris Lawery(e-mail Me)
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Sales Manager, Capture Integration
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LazzarosPhoto · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2009, 11:59:29 pm »

Many thanks for all your suggestions.

I'm thinking spending something like 5000€ till the end of the year.

For now I have a good deal (if the seller doesn't sell that till I get the money) for a PhaseOne P21+ ( and with another Contax 645 + 80mm lens that could be good if I sell it or use it as second camera)

I have to think that in the future I'll need some more lenses (they aren't cheap I know) and acessories just like the grip.

About the software I have to admit that I'm not very informed about the different brands and how I can adapt my workflow with them...

jaystudios · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2009, 08:05:11 pm »

I shoot apparel/fashion with the P21 and an H10 for backup with my Contax. Also have a full canon system.

For me the speed is dictated by my capture machine...

When i moved up from the H10 to the P21 as my workhorse, I had to upgrade the machine on which I was tethered. This meant switching to my desktop and two monitors on my cart for now-- I went from a powerbook 17"/1.67/2gb/100mb 7200 rpm to a G5 dual 2ghz/6gb/2 1tb drives. My powerbook was just too slow on receiving. At some point I'll get the new MBP and one of those new screens, but these days I'm shooting a lot more in my studio and not as much on location where I'd need the portability.

There's a lot in the archives of (much more famous) dudes shooting the Contax P21 with people/fashion. Most of my stuff is destined for web or print south of 11x14, so I didn't feel myself wanting for the bigger chip (at the expense of speed).

I use the grip and burn through 4 AA batteries every 1-1.5 days of shooting so keep a bunch handy. Maybe 10-15 full days of shooting on the 2CR5 battery.

I had thought of going full Hassy H1/phase, but glad I stayed on with Contax.

Hope that helps,

Jay

---
www.jaystudios.com

Doug Peterson · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2009, 11:31:45 pm »

Quote from: jaystudios

I shoot apparel/fashion with the P21 and an H10 for backup with my Contax. Also have a full canon system.

For me the speed is dictated by my capture machine...

When i moved up from the H10 to the P21 as my workhorse, I had to upgrade the machine on which I was tethered. This meant switching to my desktop and two monitors on my cart for now-- I went from a powerbook 17"/1.67/2gb/100mb 7200 rpm to a G5 dual 2ghz/6gb/2 1tb drives. My powerbook was just too slow on receiving. At some point I'll get the new MBP and one of those new screens, but these days I'm shooting a lot more in my studio and not as much on location where I'd need the portability.

Also keep in mind some pretty dramatic speed increases can be seen by using Capture one 4.8.X (leopard/intel macs only) compared to 3.7.9. Both in shutter-to-preview times as well as processing times.

Tchoomee · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2009, 08:09:06 am »

[quote name='LazzarosPhoto' date='Jul 18 2009, 05:11 PM' post='298657']
Hello all.

I'm starting my career as fashion photographer and I did a great deal with a NEW Contax 645 kit.

Now I'm looking for new lenses and a digital back.

I know all of this is pretty expensive but I have to start looking about it to know how much money I can spend on this equipment.

About digital back I don't need 40+ Mp for now. I'd be glad with 16Mp...

Wich one do you suggest?

Many thanks,
Ivo
I have a Leaf Aptus 65 it is a 28 Mpix very fast in shooting at 5,500 €......

vgogolak · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2009, 09:35:36 am »

one thing to remember about buying a Phase back is that there are pretty good trade in opportunities. I assume sinar and Leaf are compoarable, but their future is uncertain (and THAT from a devoted CONTAX 645 user I am quite pleased I stayed with Contax. I wish you well with yours. They are great cameras-dont forget all Hassey lenses work too))

The new C1 SW from Phase is also fast and capable.

Watch for refurbished (Capture Integration has a few)

On the Kodak, I wish you luck finding a Kodak 645c back. They are now 'fashionable and going from $2-2500 bavck to $5k range

for that (unless you want the Kodak filmic look, that it really does have) you can get a lower 22MP Phase. But I did have the Kodak and I am still amazed when I look at the images

Victor

LazzarosPhoto · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2009, 11:57:30 pm »

Many thanks for all your suggestions.

I'm trying to get 5000€ really soon and then I'll see wich oportunity appears.

For now I have a good deal if I get the money. 3000€ for one PhaseOne P21+

imagetone · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2009, 06:28:11 am »

Quote from: dougpetersonci

Also keep in mind some pretty dramatic speed increases can be seen by using Capture one 4.8.X (leopard/intel macs only) compared to 3.7.9. Both in shutter-to-preview times as well as processing times.

I don't find the moire removal very satisfactory in Capture One 4, it lacks the colour masking features of 3.7.9 and I usually end up having to layer two processed files in PS anyway to paint the moire-removal in where I want it. You can also be left with bands of luminance moire after the colour has been blurred. I am using a P25+ and this older sensor suffers from colour casts. In my case with H lenses, they are always noticeable when shooting neutral subjects or backgrounds.

Tony May

Author Topic: Contax 645 + Digital Back (Read 6906 times)