Topic: Olympus E-P1 vs Nikon D300 (Read 22338 times)

perk · « **on:** July 16, 2009, 01:30:04 pm »

DSLR's of today produces equal or better images compared to older days film SLR's. They have also become very bulky and heavy. The level of clumsiness (LOC) passed the acceptable (for me) when I got the D300: Excellent photos and ergonomy, but a lot to carry around. Lenses that utilises the full quality of the camera can weight 1 kg - and cost a lot too.
In the film days I had a Nikon SLR and a Contax G1, using the last for the most of time. So I have been waiting for a digital version of that kind of camera and now that has arrived, designed by Olympus.
After 500 E-P1 exposures, along with 100 exposures with the D300 I am very pleased with the results from the E-P1
Ergonomy:
The D300 has a high LOC, but is very easy to work with. The E-P1 is smaller, easy to work with, but not at the level of D300. The major difference is when you compode your image: The D300 has it's very good viewfinder - E-P1 has the LCD screen and the 17mm viewfinder. The later being quite good showing about 130% in a good Leica spirit: Being able to see what is outside the frame enables you to re-composition your image. The LCD is like all LCD's not very good in strong light. Here split visision is needed to compose well.
The E-P1 equipment weights 1/3 to 40% of the D300 - you will bring your camera more often and with less effort.
Performance:
D300 is faster in most areas - BUT. Use the 17 mm viewer, continous autofocus, shutter priority, auto ISO - and you can fast compose and expose. This is for journalistic/documentary purposes where the E-P1 is a lot better to use, not least because it is more quiet in more that one sense.
Image quality:
I was amazed to see the prints from the E-P1, especially considering that the lenses are not expensive nor sexy: 28 - 80 compared to my D300 16-85 as kit lenses. Olympus does very well in the microcontrast and colour rendering area. Images are a bit soft out of the camera, but less soft than the D300: Only applied about 25% of the sharpening needed with D300 images. Prints from the E-P1 are better than D300!
Looking at high ISO quality: about even at 1600ASA, higher up D300 takes the lead.
Novoflex does "from all" to micro 4/3 adapters and I have a retired Zeiss (Contax) 50/1,7. With it I bring out a lot more from the Live MOS chip: Excellent rendition of colors as always with Zeiss lenses. Sharpness is also excellent! This combination outperforms D300 with any lens I have.
Conclusion:
Every camera is a compromise. Olympus have been brave to develop this new type of digital camera. It fits my need very well and I now have to think through wether I need the D300 or not.
The Leica heritage and E-P1:
There are four reasons for the film Leica successes in photojournalism and art photography:
1. Easy (fast) to use
2. Sturdy
3. Excellent lenses (microcontast not least)
4. A viewfinder that shows also what is outside the frame. (re-compostion until the exposure is made)
The Leica M8 fails to carry the Leica heritage into the digital era due to inconsistent results and lack of reliability. The E-P1 is a cheap little camera that can be further developed: Performance need to be improved. Then we have the viewfinder issue..... I do not think, for reasons above, that an EVF will do the job. Rather ther need to be an zoom optical viewfinder (information-free). Putting the E-P1 side by side with my old M2 it looks like upscaling it to M2 size would make room for a proper viewfinder. The E-PL (L for Leica heritage ) would be bigger, heavier and about three times as expensive - a bargain for any pro! All that is needeed here is a Leica - Olympus joint venture!
Per Kylberg

markhout · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2009, 01:43:53 pm »

Per - thanks very much - interesting analysis and comparison. I would expect that the E-P1 is easier to carry and hence provides more photo opportunities.

Mark

Lisa Nikodym · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2009, 02:40:42 pm »

Before you bought the E-P1, did you do any comparisons with the Panasonic GH1 (another micro 4/3rds camera)?

Lisa

John Camp · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:35:43 pm »

Quote from: nniko

Before you bought the E-P1, did you do any comparisons with the Panasonic GH1 (another micro 4/3rds camera)?

Lisa

I have both the E-P1 and the G1, and they are very different cameras. The G1 is more capable as a still camera, IMHO, functioning like a very small, compact DSLR. It has fast autofocus, a viewfinder, and a twistable LCD. The E-P1 has a very slow autofocus - one reputable reviewer claims it is one of the slowest on the market. Is is *visibly* slow -- often hunting for more than a second.

The G1 is slightly larger than the E-P1, which has no viewfinder and a fixed LCD, but again in my opinion, the size differences are not functionally important. Both are small, but neither is small enough with a lens mounted to slip in a pants pocket (unless you have very big pockets, and don't mind walking around with a large bulge in them.) The best way to understand the size of these things is to look at them together -- I've not yet seen a photo comparison that doesn't cheat in one way or another. In my opinion, both can be considered ultra-light shoulder-strap cameras, smaller and lighter than M Leicas. They are both very packable. The lenses can be used interchangeably. The E-P1 is a better-looking camera, with a higher-quality feel to it. The E-P1 has inbody IS; the G1 has lens-based IS.

The E-P1 has video, if that's important to you (and if it is, then you may consider the E-P1 to be the more functional of the two.) The upcoming Panasonic GH-1 will also have video, but will also be more costly. For me, if video was important, I'd add a small video camera to my kit, rather than try to get by with a small combo camera like these; they are so small and light they are virtually uncontrollable, at least by me; everything jiggles.

There have been complaints about the E-P1's "low-res" LCD, compared to the G1's. The difference is visible, side-by-side, but the two cameras have to be side-by-side for me to see it, and if I hadn't been told about the difference, I doubt that I'd notice. The E-P1's LCD is larger than the G1's. I do use the G1's twistable feature, and like it a lot.

Because the lenses are interchangeable, I bought the E-P1 as a backup for my G1, rather than buying another G1. They make a nice combo, each having features that the other lacks.

JC

perk · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:20:14 pm »

Quote from: nniko

Before you bought the E-P1, did you do any comparisons with the Panasonic GH1 (another micro 4/3rds camera)?

Lisa

Yew Lisa, I did. I was disappointed with Panasonic being so conservative when designing the G1 - not using the advantage of NOT being DSLR - pure conservatism. The Panasonic is more bulky, but has better AF speed and rotating LCD. The Olympus concept fitted my needs best. The slow AF is no problem if use AF-C. I used it at Gothia Cup (Football Youth tournament) here in Göteborg and it worked OK.
According to Photography Blog the Olympus has the best image quality of any 4/3 camera - Panasonic included. Panasonic also has a problem with "old" 4/3 lens comapatibility: their adaptor work with only a few 4/3 lenses. Olympus has a solution with an adapter that works with all 4/3 lenses.
Per

cjmonty · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2009, 06:12:56 pm »

I've already mentioned on the forum that I am very happy with the E-P1. Its a nice form factor and I find myself taking more, better pictures while being about everyday.

That said, I keep running into two problems:

FLASH:
- No PC connection. I know this isn't a "professional" camera, and you can get a hotshoe adapter (which I always find unreliable), but since it already has DSLR-ish image quality, Olympus might as well keep options open for its users. This is minor, but annoying for handheld flash.

- The whole reason I find myself complaining about the PC issue, is that the pricey proprietary flash doesn't swivel. Would it kill someone to give it a 90deg movement? If the Olympus FL-14 is only going to be sort of small and sort of strong (guide # 14'), then at least it could bounce and be sort of useful.

MANUAL FOCUS
-No way to manual focus by distance- either on lens or through the viewfinder.
One thing I really enjoyed seeing on the Sigma DP1/2 was the funny little focus scroll wheel- it allowed you to "set and shoot" on manual focus, relying on what you know about the DOF or hyperfocal distance of that lens/aperture.
As far as I can tell, there is no way to see the focal plane distance as a read-out on the LCD.

And as for the "start anywhere, know nothing" focus ring on the lenses... its gee whiz-technology leading to really bad, unusable design.

If anyone sees how to set the focal distance manually (as a number) on the E-P1, please chime in.

Lisa Nikodym · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:05:49 pm »

Thanks for the comments, JC & Per. I've been waiting and watching what's going on with micro 4/3rds cameras, thinking about getting one as an occasional alternative to my D300 (which I find somewhat too heavy, with the 18-200 VR lens, to carry for any significant length of time). It sounds like the E-P1 and the GH1 have different advantages and disadvantages; I'll ponder your comments and continue thinking about it for awhile. It's good to know that the lenses are interchangeable, too - it's the Panasonic 14-140 lens that got me seriously interested.

Lisa

dalethorn · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:24:31 pm »

Quote from: cjmonty

And as for the "start anywhere, know nothing" focus ring on the lenses... its gee whiz-technology leading to really bad, unusable design.
If anyone sees how to set the focal distance manually (as a number) on the E-P1, please chime in.

As far as I can tell, Panasonic and Olympus borrowed the manually-assisted electronic focus from point-n-shoot cameras like the Panasonic FZ-50, which works exactly the same as the G1's "manual" focus.

Since this is really an electronic focus and not manual in the true sense, what worries me is, even if you get it set to a particular distance, it may not stay focused on that distance. I wouldn't bet on it, anyway.

dalethorn · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:31:51 pm »

Quote from: nniko

....it's the Panasonic 14-140 lens that got me seriously interested.
Lisa

There was quite a discussion a while back about the G1's focusing and softness with the 45-200 lens, and several reviews carefully avoided mentioning any performance issues with that lens. But Dpreview has now reviewed the GH1 and its 14-140 lens, and no surprise, it's "soft at the long end."

I was looking at the GH1 before getting the G1, but rejected it because of the forced lens choice that wasn't long enough. I was thinking that the 14-140 lens must have a value about twice as great as the 45-200 used by the G1, otherwise, Panasonic would be charging nearly twice as much for the GH1 body as they do for the G1 body. So if that 14-140 lens is as valuable as their price seems to indicate, I'd be worried about that softness on the long end. And 140 mm isn't nearly as long as 200 mm.

John Camp · « **Reply #9 on:** July 17, 2009, 12:21:57 am »

Quote from: cjmonty

<snip>

And as for the "start anywhere, know nothing" focus ring on the lenses... its gee whiz-technology leading to really bad, unusable design.

If anyone sees how to set the focal distance manually (as a number) on the E-P1, please chime in.

I agree. The problem for me is mostly mental - I forget where I am, and which direction I want to turn the ring. I also use Leica lenses on both cameras, with a Camera Quest adapter, and don't have the problem. Leica lenses, by the way, at least above 50mm, work very well; I've been told that there are some pixel-smearing problems with shorter lenses. I have trouble focusing the Leica 135 with an M8, but no such problem with either of the 4/3 bodies, and I *really* like the results with the 135 f3.4 (equiv 270) and a 50mm f1 Noctilux (equiv 100mm.)

Another note -- although the E-P1 is smaller than the G1, it probably uses more power, because the only method of focusing is the full-sized LCD. The problem is, in its effort to make the camera very small, Oly also cut the size of the battery. I haven't done any comprehensive review of battery life (I just recharge when I get home), but the G1 battery appears to be twice the size of the Oly and I'm almost certain (no tests, just usage) that the battery life is roughly comparable to size. The Oly manual contains a number of warnings about over-heating the camera, which suggests to me that in heavy use, the battery could be used up pretty quickly.

perk · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2009, 11:50:25 am »

Today thre are rumors on Swedish internet that Leica/Panasonic will soon anounce an M-like micro 4/3 camera together with a series of HQ lenses. Maybe the great interest for Olympus make them make the anounement earlier than planned...... But of course this is only rumors.
Per

MarkL · « **Reply #11 on:** July 17, 2009, 05:10:20 pm »

Quote from: perk

Today thre are rumors on Swedish internet that Leica/Panasonic will soon anounce an M-like micro 4/3 camera together with a series of HQ lenses. Maybe the great interest for Olympus make them make the anounement earlier than planned...... But of course this is only rumors.
Per

The M8 is too expensive, lenses are too expensive and it is flakey at best. The Oly EP1 has super slow autofocus and no viewfinder to manual focus quickly in a usable fashion. If this turns out to be true it will sell like hot cakes bar any horrible design flaws.

Other than that I'll wait until Epson's next camera and cross my fingers. It really shouldn't be this hard given how long digital has been around.

teddillard · « **Reply #12 on:** August 07, 2009, 07:13:40 am »

Hope I'm not stepping on toes, here, but we just got a review up on our site, comparing the E-P1/D5000/T1i. Some interesting test results, esp. at higher ISO.

Here's the link.

250swb · « **Reply #13 on:** August 08, 2009, 03:22:23 am »

Here is a link with photo's for the Panasonic GF-1 digital 'rangefinder'. It will have an EVF and use Leica designed lenses.

Panasonic GF-1

There is one myth that should be put to bed about the Olympus E-P1. It does not have slow AF If you mount a Panasonic m4/3 lens on it the camera will focus just as fast as the Panasonic G1. So it is the lens that is slow to focus, not the camera. It may be a mute point if you only have Olympus lenses for it, but it is wrong to blame the inherent functions of the body for poor AF. Perhaps Olympus will recitfy this with a Firmare update, and perhaps they thought that making all Olympus lenses focus at a similar speed was a good idea, rather than allow the newer ones to focus faster, who knows?

Steve

MarkL · « **Reply #14 on:** August 08, 2009, 07:00:11 am »

Quote from: perk

Performance:
D300 is faster in most areas - BUT. Use the 17 mm viewer, continous autofocus, shutter priority, auto ISO - and you can fast compose and expose. This is for journalistic/documentary purposes where the E-P1 is a lot better to use, not least because it is more quiet in more that one sense.

What about AF speed?

perk · « **Reply #15 on:** August 08, 2009, 11:10:01 am »

Quote from: MarkL

What about AF speed?

Mark,
using the C-AF and half-pressed release button, the camera will focus all the time. Making the exposure is almost instantaneous - and you can shoot a couple of images at 3/sec. This is a work-around I learned with the film Contax G1 (also with slow AF :-)). It is of course a real battery-drainer though....
Per

perk · « **Reply #16 on:** August 08, 2009, 11:15:28 am »

Quote from: teddillard

Hope I'm not stepping on toes, here, but we just got a review up on our site, comparing the E-P1/D5000/T1i. Some interesting test results, esp. at higher ISO.

Here's the link.

I had a look at the H2Hreviews without beeing too impressed by their analyses. I recomend those who consider buying theDPR (Digital Photography Reveiw) E-P1 review that clearly points out positives and negatives for the E-P1.
Per

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #17 on:** August 08, 2009, 12:48:25 pm »

Quote from: perk

I had a look at the H2Hreviews without beeing too impressed by their analyses. I recomend those who consider buying theDPR (Digital Photography Reveiw) E-P1 review that clearly points out positives and negatives for the E-P1.
Per

What is the issue with their analysis?

PeterT · « **Reply #18 on:** August 08, 2009, 02:20:54 pm »

Quote from: MarkL

Other than that I'll wait until Epson's next camera and cross my fingers. It really shouldn't be this hard given how long digital has been around.

Has Epson announced that there will be another camera?

teddillard · « **Reply #19 on:** August 09, 2009, 05:29:20 am »

Quote from: PeterT

Has Epson announced that there will be another camera?

No.

The R-D1xG was announced in Feb 09, and shipped in April, if memory serves. There haven't been any recent announcements from Epson.

Author Topic: Olympus E-P1 vs Nikon D300 (Read 22338 times)

dalethorn

dalethorn

DarkPenguin