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Author Topic: Archival mount of very large prints  (Read 12708 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Archival mount of very large prints
« on: July 15, 2009, 10:21:56 am »

Dear all,

I am currently looking for a suitable mounting solution for very large prints (44 inch x 60 - 100 inch) with archival quality:

- what is the recommendation for mount board?
- what is the recommendation for adhesive?
- does that require a cold mounting press or is manual pressure application sufficient?
- what is the recommended solution for matting at these sizes?

Thank you in advance,

Regards,
Bernard

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2009, 10:39:59 am »

Hi Bernard,

I don't have any suggestions, just a question: Is it a coincidence that this request follows so closely on your acquisition of your new "MFDB?"

Clearly that Mamiya 6 requires BIG prints!   

Cheers,

Eric

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BernardLanguillier

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 06:07:35 pm »

Quote from: EricM
Hi Bernard,

I don't have any suggestions, just a question: Is it a coincidence that this request follows so closely on your acquisition of your new "MFDB?"

Clearly that Mamiya 6 requires BIG prints! 

Good catch Eric, everything is related isn't it?

cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 09:10:33 am »

Anybody with feedback on this one?

Cheers,
Bernard

Ernst Dinkla

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 09:43:25 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Anybody with feedback on this one?

Cheers,
Bernard

Sizes like that go beyond the "board" description in my opinion.
Think metal ot metal composites like Aluminium 1mm or DiBond 2mm, Alucobond.
Thin and rigid.
Thicker and less rigid:
Forex, Sintra are expanded PVCs and might release chloride but the specs suggest it is very low for Sintra. PH is no problem either.

Acryl based adhesives are the best archival solutions. You will need lamination equipment like a Seal or SallMetall laminator.



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

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T_om

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 10:52:10 am »

The best place to find an answer to that is here: http://www.thegrumble.com/index.php

Tom
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bill t.

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 04:23:07 pm »

I routinely mount canvas prints that size using Miracle Muck fabric glue rolled onto a large piece of Gatorfoam.

Heresy!  Yes I know.  But I have mural mounts mounted in the 70's on Masonite with the same type of glue and they are still in superb condition.  If you are interested in how to do it, I would be glad to elaborate, even though it is my most important competitive trade secret.  From start to finish I can mount a print that size without help in less than 15 minutes with only a tabletop, a paint roller, a cardboard tube, some masking tape, and a cotton glove.  With a very low stress 100% success rate.

I have also used sticky-back adhesive to mount 24 x 60's RC and papers prints, it's a nightmare (especially with RC) and just plain tacky, don't even think about it (he says leaving an opening for the pros).

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Christopher

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2009, 04:37:54 pm »

Quote from: bill t.
I routinely mount canvas prints that size using Miracle Muck fabric glue rolled onto a large piece of Gatorfoam.

Heresy!  Yes I know.  But I have mural mounts mounted in the 70's on Masonite with the same type of glue and they are still in superb condition.  If you are interested in how to do it, I would be glad to elaborate, even though it is my most important competitive trade secret.  From start to finish I can mount a print that size without help in less than 15 minutes with only a tabletop, a paint roller, a cardboard tube, some masking tape, and a cotton glove.  With a very low stress 100% success rate.

I have also used sticky-back adhesive to mount 24 x 60's RC and papers prints, it's a nightmare (especially with RC) and just plain tacky, don't even think about it (he says leaving an opening for the pros).

You could look at a company like Grieger. I know that they are not really based around your area, but you could look for similar services etc. Their quality is great and as far as I know they are quite leading in mounting and so on. They worked on some of the larger photographic exhibitions in Germany and the UK.
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bill t.

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 12:02:36 am »

Quote from: pearlstreet
The OP mentioned archival quality. How do all these adhesives. dry mounting, etc. affect that?

The terms "adhesive" and "archival" are mutually exclusive.  Strict "archival" framing requires that the print can be removed from the frame or whatever in exactly the state it was before framing.

I don't like archival.  It encourages print warping and even at its best puts the art in a small sarcophagus-like greenhouse.  Archival framing is intended for temporary display by museums in temperature and humidity controlled environments.  Poor confused photographers decided it should be used for long term display in lousy environments.

I prefer "long lasting" to "archival."  This allows me to glue my carefully coated canvases to backings in ways that I know from experience are still in good condition after 30+ years and does not require the use of problematical absurdities like glass or plex and paper mattes.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2009, 05:26:16 am »

Quote from: pearlstreet
The OP mentioned archival quality. How do all these adhesives. dry mounting, etc. affect that?

Sharon


Acrylic based adhesives are archival in the sense that they do not decompose, are HP neutral etc. Similar base materisal is used for the varnishes. B72 formule etc.

Whether it has to be removed later on is questionable but depends also on the substrate it is mounted on, the better the last they will keep the sandwich intact.
The removable criterium is more a restoration approach; any repair done to an original artwork should be reversible as newer and better technology will be available in the next decade and today's vision on that piece of art will change in time too.
The artist should just find the best materials available that withstand the time.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
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Curtis Miller

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2010, 11:40:41 am »

I guess I don't really hear answers to the primary question here. I am looking for a similar answer. I want to mount prints on heavy weight watercolor paper in sizes of 44 x ??? I don't like the idea of permanent adhesion but don't really see an alternative.

Self-adhesive foam board sounds okay but I suspect it will bow and deform badly with changes in humidity.

I've used spray adhesive and would trust it for small prints and perhaps smoother papers, but not for a huge print like this. I'm pretty sure it will delaminate over time.

I'd like to use gator foam with the self-adhesive surface but I am unsure about the archival quality of the gator foam. I am going to ignore the issue of adhesion and "archival," I want a print that lasts a long time, whether adhering it to a substrate violates archival rules or not. I know gator foam in not entirely acid free but someone told me that the adhesive serves as a bit of a barrier as well.

I'm trying to avoid the high cost of metals, etc. I'm looking for a way to prepare prints for galleries without bankrupting myself. I have several galleries to supply, some of whom are new to me so I don't know if they will be successful in selling my work. They need substantial numbers of prints and I want them to have a way of displaying them without, as I said, bankrupting me in the process.

Any experience with the foam core flatness issue or opinions on gator foam?
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stretchdcanvas

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2010, 07:15:39 pm »

All the prints I've done on watercolor paper tend to be in the smaller sizes so they can be finished with mats and framed in a traditional manner.
I frequently show in a metal frame  @ 48x60 and print on photo paper, mount on 1/2" gator ( or 1/4" jetmount if I'm short on budget) and laminate with a textured material.  Depending on the installation you might have to laminate the back of foamboard as well to prevent moisture from getting in and warping the board.
I've also used acrylic, Dibond, masonite and others.  They all work fine once you get the hang of it.
Frequently the size of the print determines what to use as a substrate.  Not all substrates are available in 5'x10' but most everything is available in 4x8 and smaller.  Exhibit designers and architects live in a "construction' world that knows 4x8's.


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stretchdcanvas

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2010, 07:22:08 pm »

I forgot to mention that when creating really large displays/prints in the 8'x4-10'x5' range, the cost of crating and shipping very quickly exceeds the cost of materials.
Things like paper. gator and Dibond can begin to look like chump change when all is said and done.
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fdi

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Archival mount of very large prints
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 03:17:38 pm »

Very little framing material such as mat board and foamcore is manufactured larger than 40”x60”. There is a little at 4’x8’, and even less larger. This means the cost is higher and selection very low. Even most wood picture frame moulding is 8’ of shorter. Most metal is right at 10’ and very little above that.

You can send items that large via UPS, Fedex, or USPS so you will have to freight them.

Museum level conservation framing requires that you can 100% remove the image from the frame package and 100% remove any adhesive used. The reason for this is that they want items to last forever and eventually the framing package gets contaminated and they would like to be able to swap everything out and reframe the item.

At a lower level of archival framing is just making sure that none of the components used to mount and frame the image will cause harm so you use components that naturally inert and usually free acidic compounds lignins and other chemicals. I have more info about conservative mounting here.

Although I own a frame manufacturing company we do little to know mounting, and nothing at that size. My limited experience opinion is that mounting techniques like t-hinging would be difficult at that size. I would recommend that you utilize a permanent mounting technique. At that size the more common methods are usually pressure activated adhesive applied with a press. The key for permanent mounting to actually be permanent is two fold. 1. You must fully activate the adhesive across the entire surface. 2. You must get rid of all air. Both of these requirements are difficult to achieve by hand unless the image is pretty small. At the size you are talking about I would say it is impossible by hand. If not done properly the image will peel and bubble over time.

Most companies that are capable of printing at that size are capable of mounting at that size. As far as the substrate goes, I would not consider foamcore at that size. I would use something like gatorboard that is at least ½ inch thick.

Cheers,
Mark
President
Frame Destination, Inc.
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Mark Rogers
Frame Destination [url=https
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