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Author Topic: Gallery, workshops, fine-art  (Read 5591 times)

markhout

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« on: July 08, 2009, 01:10:52 pm »

Before I plunk down the $$$ for Alain Briot's Marketing DVDs I wanted to raise and ask the following.

Times are challenging and I am looking to get out of the cubicle. We spend our summers in a very nice rural area north of NYC, with plentiful photo opportunities, good light and also with a comercially interesting target market in terms of NYC residents that flee the summer heat (i.e. folks like us, but then much wealthier).

I am considering opening a place with gallery / workshop space, focused on local images with perhaps the odd non-US of Rockies/West image thrown in. In addition, I would offer Saturday training sessions, focused on how to improve vacation pics. I would perhaps add interior/(environmental)portraiture. I would be visible on local farmer's markets, art fairs etc etc, and advertise in local media outlets.

Frankly I am surprised to see that while I know that a number of photographers have the same ambition in this geographic area, nothing has visibly materialized.

Location is key, obviously, and the opportunity is seasonal here, but I would like to hear from others who are toying with the same idea, perhaps in the same region or elsewhere and see how we can leverage plans, ideas, thoughts, pitfalls and opportunities.

Please comment here in the forum, or reach out by email/pm.

Thanks!

Mark
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russell a

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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2009, 01:53:48 pm »

Thousands have such dreams, such is a wonder of mankind.  But, to paraphrase a relevant bit of wisdom:  How does one wind up with $1Million in the photo gallery business?  Start with $2Million.  Look closely at most galleries that stay in business for a length of time and you will find they are underwritten by a trust fund or the equivalent.  Sorry.
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markhout

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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 03:00:38 pm »

Quote from: russell a
Thousands have such dreams, such is a wonder of mankind.  But, to paraphrase a relevant bit of wisdom:  How does one wind up with $1Million in the photo gallery business?  Start with $2Million.  Look closely at most galleries that stay in business for a length of time and you will find they are underwritten by a trust fund or the equivalent.  Sorry.

Russell - fair enough & agreed. However, this is not meant at all as a gallery-only venture and I believe that the upfront investment should be manageable (rent and stock being the main spoiler). In fact, I would say that the gallery in my proposal is more of a marketing than a sales tool.

Thanks,

Mark
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bill t.

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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2009, 12:55:02 am »

There is a relatively successful gallery in my city that is supported by workshops.  The workshop media is non-photographic print making (except for gravure).  There is a symbiosis between the gallery and the workshops that makes it all work.  The workshops have both students and many accomplished artists who rely on the shop and equipment and are often featured in the well promoted gallery.

Perhaps there is some equivalent setup where photographers would have access to large format printers, mounting and framing equipment, some workspace, etc.  In other words access to the space-hungry production side of photography.  And of course a place to display their work.

The gal who runs the whole thing has a serious head for business, let's not forget that.  And she doesn't have much time to do her own art.
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feppe

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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2009, 04:57:29 am »

From what I've read between the lines over the years is that many (apparently) financially successful North American photographers run workshops and/or do various teaching seminars, including Michael, Joe McNally, David Ziser and everybody at Kelbytraining.com. Most of these photographers produce outstanding to sublime work, yet they have decided to go the workshop route. Looking at the prices of some of those workshops it's not really surprising, though.

This might also imply there is a diminishing amount of money in selling photographic prints or rights to photographs to the point that many, if not most, pros have turned to peripheral activities to support themselves - but I'd be glad to be corrected as I don't plan to run any workshops, and have aspirations to become semi-pro some day. Of course it might be that the photographers who spend their time making money out of photos just don't spend their time online...

lightstand

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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2009, 10:49:16 am »

It seems there are just as many workshops on photography as there are photographers, however there seems to be a lack of peripheral classes to the digital darkroom that could go after markets other than just photographers who want to get out of the city spending time in a tranquil artistic environment yet be learning in-depth information on dealing with web code, internet security, properly configuring Raids, trouble shooting computers/printers,  creating multimedia slide shows, truly advanced photoshop workshops, video, etc...    But the one underling requirement would have to be in-depth genuinely advance information as intro workshops that promise too much, cost too much and end up wasting too much of your time are soon forgotten and avoided like the plague.

just my observation, jeff
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alainbriot

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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 02:37:09 pm »

Quote from: lightstand
It seems there are just as many workshops on photography as there are photographers, however there seems to be a lack of peripheral classes to the digital darkroom that could go after markets other than just photographers who want to get out of the city spending time in a tranquil artistic environment yet be learning in-depth information on dealing with web code, internet security, properly configuring Raids, trouble shooting computers/printers,  creating multimedia slide shows, truly advanced photoshop workshops, video, etc...    But the one underling requirement would have to be in-depth genuinely advance information as intro workshops that promise too much, cost too much and end up wasting too much of your time are soon forgotten and avoided like the plague.

just my observation, jeff


Don't forget that there's a fundamental difference between selling prints and training/workshops: one is a product while the other one is a service.  

The two are not mutually exclusive.  In fact, there is a powerful symbiosis to offering them in combination. It's not so much a matter of which one sells best. It is a matter of offering a line of products and services that are complementary.  

Today, successful businesses no longer sell a single product, or a single service.  Instead, diversification has become a key element of 21st century marketing.

Alain
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 02:38:43 pm by alainbriot »
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Geoff Wittig

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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 07:44:07 pm »

Quote from: feppe
From what I've read between the lines over the years is that many (apparently) financially successful North American photographers run workshops and/or do various teaching seminars, including Michael, Joe McNally, David Ziser and everybody at Kelbytraining.com. Most of these photographers produce outstanding to sublime work, yet they have decided to go the workshop route. Looking at the prices of some of those workshops it's not really surprising, though.

This might also imply there is a diminishing amount of money in selling photographic prints or rights to photographs to the point that many, if not most, pros have turned to peripheral activities to support themselves - but I'd be glad to be corrected as I don't plan to run any workshops, and have aspirations to become semi-pro some day. Of course it might be that the photographers who spend their time making money out of photos just don't spend their time online...

Bingo. You are exactly correct.
I have attended workshops over the years with some of the bigger names in nature photography, starting back in the pre-digital era. Most have been refreshingly candid about the business of nature photography, and the dramatic deterioration of its monetary fundamentals. Back in the 1970s it was entirely feasible to earn a good living from 35 mm natural history, wildlife and landscape images. This was due to the felicitous combination of environmental awareness, demand for images for advertising/editorial use, and the relative scarcity of really good images. One very well known photographer in particular was remarkably open about the financial reality of nature photography in discussions around the camp fire. As of the late 1970s he earned a very good income just from usage fees for his nature photographs. By the 1990s the market was collapsing, and despite his beautiful images, deep knowledge of natural history and countless contacts in the publishing world, he was struggling just to keep the lights on. Teaching workshops was a godsend and now provides the bulk of his income.

The widespread availability of excellent digital cameras, the relative ease of making good exposures, and the armies of eager young photo school graduates and amateurs looking for a way out of an office cubicle have totally changed the business. There are now thousands of photographers and millions of technically excellent images chasing a much, much smaller editorial and advertising market. Usage rights fees are being hammered flat by brutal competition, the rising quality and quantity of cheap stock images, and the collapse of advertising budgets.

The consensus among folks I have talked to is that it is still possible to earn a modest income from nature photography. The most promising approach is focusing intensely on a subject or region that is relatively unexplored, developing a really excellent portfolio that represents the best body of work available on that subject, and marketing the heck out of it in every conceivable direction.
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feppe

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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 04:26:45 am »

Quote from: Geoff Wittig
The widespread availability of excellent digital cameras, the relative ease of making good exposures, and the armies of eager young photo school graduates and amateurs looking for a way out of an office cubicle have totally changed the business. There are now thousands of photographers and millions of technically excellent images chasing a much, much smaller editorial and advertising market. Usage rights fees are being hammered flat by brutal competition, the rising quality and quantity of cheap stock images, and the collapse of advertising budgets.

Adapt or perish, indeed. As much as I'd like to lament such a state, it is hard for me to do so as most (if not all) other creative endeavors face the same challenges and pressures. Joe Blow has only so much time in a day and money to spend on entertainment, and photographs go largely for the same discretionary time and money as do music, movies, games, paintings, sculptures, etc. There has been an explosion of supply of entertainment and (popular) arts in the past few generations, while demand has only grown modestly due to population growth and increases in disposable income.

The good news is that the public should get even better photographs of the subjects they like.

markhout

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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 09:22:35 am »

Quote from: Geoff Wittig
The widespread availability of excellent digital cameras, the relative ease of making good exposures, and the armies of eager young photo school graduates and amateurs looking for a way out of an office cubicle have totally changed the business. There are now thousands of photographers and millions of technically excellent images chasing a much, much smaller editorial and advertising market. Usage rights fees are being hammered flat by brutal competition, the rising quality and quantity of cheap stock images, and the collapse of advertising budgets.

The consensus among folks I have talked to is that it is still possible to earn a modest income from nature photography. The most promising approach is focusing intensely on a subject or region that is relatively unexplored, developing a really excellent portfolio that represents the best body of work available on that subject, and marketing the heck out of it in every conceivable direction.

Geoff - thanks for the feedback. If you mean stock / advertising and editorial / magazine photography then I agree and the arguments that you and others provide are valid.

However, my proposal is focused on a number of diversified opportunities (as Alain said) - where I would use fine-art and a gallery spaces as a marketing tool for interior photography, environmental portraits and, yes, training services. I believe that the drivers that changed the business (cameras, amateurs etc) create a great market for training / printing services, provide more recognition for fine-art and indeed elevate the awareness of good photography. The market and business changed, but that does not mean that photography is dead.

Location, though, remains the key driver in my view - as is aptly demonstrated by Alain's life story compiled in his essays and interviews.

Mark
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 09:23:27 am by markhout »
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alainbriot

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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 11:59:48 am »

I think that it's tempting, and often easy, to use the negative aspects of the marketplace (see posts above) as explanation for lack of success.  The same approach can be used to explain away the lack of success of other, non-photographic, products.  Cars for example.  Unlike photographs or art, cars are a need not a want.  In that respect they should be easier to sell.  Yet, some car companies do very well while other need to be bailed out.

Fact is, there are photographers (and car companies) today making a fortune selling their work and they are others who are not doing well at all .  Why do some succeed and prosper?  Because they know precisely what works and what doesn't.  They know how to market their photography-related services and products.  To me, this is the one factor that makes all the difference.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 12:00:22 pm by alainbriot »
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ckimmerle

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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 02:43:29 pm »

Quote from: alainbriot
.....Why do some succeed and prosper?  Because they know precisely what works and what doesn't.  They know how to market their photography-related services and products....

It sounds as if you're advocating that photographers cater more to consumer preferences than to their own personal vision and style. That's fine in the commercial or photojournalistic or portraiture fields, but is antithetical to what a fine art photographer should be trying to accomplish.
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markhout

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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2009, 04:13:03 pm »

Quote from: ckimmerle
It sounds as if you're advocating that photographers cater more to consumer preferences than to their own personal vision and style. That's fine in the commercial or photojournalistic or portraiture fields, but is antithetical to what a fine art photographer should be trying to accomplish.

Not really - I don't think that there is anything antithetical with using fine-art as a statement of a photographer's (commercial) capability. That is the "artist in business" discussion I'd say...
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alainbriot

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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2009, 05:52:55 pm »

Quote from: ckimmerle
It sounds as if you're advocating that photographers cater more to consumer preferences than to their own personal vision and style.

Not at all.  An artist's vision/style and an artist's approach to selling his work are two different things.  If you read my essays on Vision, Being an Artist and Being an Artist in Business, which are all available on this site, you will see that I approach the artistic and the business sides of photography separately.

In my view, creating art, and in the process expressing one's vision and style, is a private act, one that takes into consideration the photographer/artist's needs.  Selling art, and in the process marketing to a specific audience, is a public act that takes into consideration a specific audience's needs.

Knowing how to market your work does not mean that you are creating work that you know will sell.  While this option is certainly open, my recommendation is to create work that expresses your vision, your style and your passion.  

Artwork does not need to be created with the goal of pleasing a specific audience to sell well.   Marketing art in such a way that the artist is able to continue expressing his vision while selling his work successful is the real challenge.  One in which those who succeed know what works and what does not work.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 06:00:14 pm by alainbriot »
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ckimmerle

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« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2009, 09:55:02 am »

Quote from: alainbriot
Knowing how to market your work does not mean that you are creating work that you know will sell.  While this option is certainly open, my recommendation is to create work that expresses your vision, your style and your passion.

Okay, I'll buy that. When you wrote in the previous post about a photographer knowing what works and what doesn't, I think I misinterpreted that as you referring to images rather than marketing. Glad I was wrong.
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alainbriot

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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2009, 01:20:56 pm »

Quote from: ckimmerle
Okay, I'll buy that. When you wrote in the previous post about a photographer knowing what works and what doesn't, I think I misinterpreted that as you referring to images rather than marketing. Glad I was wrong.

Chuck,

I understand.  I write very fast when I post in the forum as I don't have much time, doing this "on the side" of my other activities so to speak. Sometimes I go back and edit my posts, but often I just leave them as is.   I know it can be a problem.  I'm a lot more focused when I write for books or essays and I do a lot of rewriting and editing.  I also have Natalie read what I write before it goes out.

Alain
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