What do you do when they ask for layers?

[Phil Indeblanc]

I wasn't sure where to post, but this question has come up in my practice a few times, and I was hoping to get some feedback from the pros who face this day in and day out.

What do you say (or how does it come to an understanding) to a client(private or bureau) that requests the layered file?


If there is another catagory that pros might visit more often, let me know where it would fit best, As this is the first time I am visiting this catagory.

Thanks,
Phil

[Ken Bennett]

That's not really enough information to provide a useful answer. Is this art photography? Commercial photography? What kind of layers? What is the final product and use? Who is the client?

This is a fine place to post, btw.

[Phil Indeblanc]

That's not really enough information to provide a useful answer. Is this art photography? Commercial photography? What kind of layers? What is the final product and use? Who is the client?

This is a fine place to post, btw.

Often it is advert photo.  Client can be a manufacturer.  They want the product seperate from background.  Either for a magazine or a catalogue.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

In Photoshop the preferred way to work is with layers. You essentially apply your modification to a layer. Think like this


Top layer: Sharpening
Next layer: dodge and burn
Next layer: curves
Next layer: levels
Background: original

This way each modification can be toggled and modified.

Especially if you invested in Photoshop CS you should really laern about layers. The Kathryn Eismann books are an excellent source of information.

Best regards
Erik

Often it is advert photo.  Client can be a manufacturer.  They want the product seperate from background.  Either for a magazine or a catalogue.

[pegelli]

Erik, I think the OP is asking if he should give his layered picture to his client (vs. a flattened one), not if he should use layers or not.

Phil, it depends. The only reason a client wants the individual layers is because they want to tinker with the picture themselves. Question is are you OK with that, have you been payed enough to allow them the full use of your product or do you keep some rights to the product in a way that does not allow them to modify the product you sold them. For me the answer to this question is all about the negotiation and price, and not so much about established principles.

[Josh-H]

I NEVER EVER EVER give a client a layered file.

The layered file is my I.P. It contains the methods by which I or anyone used to get to the end result. And clients are not paying for I.P (if they were the price would be a LOT more. They are paying for the photograph.).

I feel a high resolution flattened uncompressed TiFF file in an appropriate color space is more than ample for any clients legitimate needs.

I would be very wary of any client asking for layered files.

[geotzo]

I NEVER EVER EVER give a client a layered file.

The layered file is my I.P. It contains the methods by which I or anyone used to get to the end result. And clients are not paying for I.P (if they were the price would be a LOT more. They are paying for the photograph.).

I feel a high resolution flattened uncompressed TiFF file in an appropriate color space is more than ample for any clients legitimate needs.

I would be very wary of any client asking for layered files.

Too right. Last time I gave out a layered file for an ad campaign, I found out they did the rest of the work (was a series of 10 images), by themselves, copying my method. I felt stupid and
I ll never do it again.

[situgrrl]

It's a long time since I have retouched for money, but there is no way I would ever hand a client anything but the final versions.  By all means, do the extraction onto a transparent background though.

[Phil Indeblanc]

thanks for the feedbacks,  Yes, I have a hard time with it. 90% of the time it doesn't come up.

I wanted to know how that might be negotiated in the process. Do you assume it might come up and you have it in your contracts that there will be final images supplied, or no individual, or seperate images, only final..etc that is defined?  or when it is asked after the shoot, how do you go about explaining, and not giving up?

thanks

[lightstand]

Can I just ask a quick clarifying question? Are you asking about a giving them a document that is layered with your color corrections (optimizations) or are you asking about creating a file with a clipping path so they (the client) can place the subject in a graphic file without the background?

Edit: I don't see anything wrong with charging an hourly rate ($150?) and placing a clipping path around products

[Phil Indeblanc]

Can I just ask a quick clarifying question? Are you asking about a giving them a document that is layered with your color corrections (optimizations) or are you asking about creating a file with a clipping path so they (the client) can place the subject in a graphic file without the background?

Edit: I don't see anything wrong with charging an hourly rate ($150?) and placing a clipping path around products

no color adjustments as I flatten those, but a background I design with the product over it separately. This will allow the product to be used with other backgrounds, or create ads with the product dropped in.

[lightstand]

So basically you are creating a digital artistic background and putting a clipping path around the product that they can either have on or off?  Where do the layers come into play? Charge them for your artistic talents plus the hourly rate for the clipping paths so you can pass the the path work onto your assistant while keeping usage rights to any digital designs you create. However honesty I think I'm missing something that you are asking so maybe it's more complex than I'm reading.

edit: if you think they will use your backgrounds in other images give them two files one file with the product flattened on your background and a second version with the clipping path in play without your background probably will help them in the long run knowing the correct file to use.

[Phil Indeblanc]

So basically you are creating a digital artistic background and putting a clipping path around the product that they can either have on or off?  Where do the layers come into play? Charge them for your artistic talents plus the hourly rate for the clipping paths so you can pass the the path work onto your assistant while keeping usage rights to any digital designs you create. However honesty I think I'm missing something that you are asking so maybe it's more complex than I'm reading.

edit: if you think they will use your backgrounds in other images give them two files one file with the product flattened on your background and a second version with the clipping path in play without your background probably will help them in the long run knowing the correct file to use.

I do the paths, and then I knock it out, so there is not path.  My question is, how many people are really OK with giving it that way...and for those that are not(like myself), how do you tell the contest the client.

When you give them your file in the way described, they can place it on any background, and then use (OR MISUSE is what i am worried about) it with other backgrounds.  

I have a problem of supplying layered files....  Also because, our studio has a small group of designers that handle the background, type and prepress needs for making an ad, or other print media.

[cmi]

I do the paths, and then I knock it out, so there is not path.  My question is, how many people are really OK with giving it that way...and for those that are not(like myself), how do you tell the contest the client.

When you give them your file in the way described, they can place it on any background, and then use (OR MISUSE is what i am worried about) it with other backgrounds.  

I have a problem of supplying layered files....  Also because, our studio has a small group of designers that handle the background, type and prepress needs for making an ad, or other print media.

Well it really depends on the actual work in question, you cant give a general answer to that. Are these high-end images, with a special backdrop where cutting it out would really damage the whole work? Maybe there is a gap betwheen what the client expects and what you want to deliver. My experience with 3D stuff I did for brochure work is, that if I have a well lit graphic it can be used pretty much anywhere. But of course then my team was next door so we would talk abiout it all the time anyway. Also if appropriate I would just tell them the issue and figure a way out with them together and also mention my ability do do good backdrops as well. Or have a look at the work of the guy who actually does it, if it gets too horrible, arrange it that you are not mentioned in the credits, if you feel it could hurt your reputation. At the end I guess it comes really down to, are you comfortable to deliver intermediate work wich will be refined by others?