Phase One/Leica Strategic Alliance: Not

[hubell]

Remember the Phase One/Leica strategic alliance that was announced with such fanfare at Photokina last Fall? It's gonzo!What do you think that means for support of Leica S2 files in the Capture One software? I hope Leica was not relying upon Capture One as its raw converter and Phase has pulled the plug.

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=864286

[Guy Mancuso]

Remember the Phase One/Leica strategic alliance that was announced with such fanfare at Photokina last Fall? It's gonzo!What do you think that means for support of Leica S2 files in the Capture One software? I hope Leica was not relying upon Capture One as its raw converter and Phase has pulled the plug.

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=864286

Pulling the plug works both ways and Leica told me back at PMA it was thinking about it's own software, which in my opinion is a really BAD idea. New camera , new software can be just double trouble with bugs. We all know how long it has taken Phase and Hassy for that matter to come up with good raw processing software and regardless what anyone thinks it was not a overnight sensation in either case but long development time . Now obviously Leica S2 files are DNG and can be supported by Lightroom and CS4 but is that going to be the best raw processing software for there files. All remains to be seen. As far as who pulled the plug that is a backend decision that happened in board meetings and we will never know and frankly who cares it is what is in the users hands that counts

[arashm]

wow
I don't think this is good for the S2 or Leica...
it's this sort of thing that makes people lose confidence in MFDB, one day your supported one day your not, you planed to blow your hard earned money on x with y+Z and now y is no longer available so back to the drawing board.
all of this only makes the Hasselblad brand look better and better! ( as much as I love C1 software).
crazy times.....
am

[Guy Mancuso]

wow
I don't think this is good for the S2 or Leica...
it's this sort of thing that makes people lose confidence in MFDB, one day your supported one day your not, you planed to blow your hard earned money on x with y+Z and now y is no longer available so back to the drawing board.
all of this only makes the Hasselblad brand look better and better! ( as much as I love C1 software).
crazy times.....
am

I look at it differently it's not Phase i am running from but the thought of the S2 . Looking back i made a good decision to go Phase when I did , that has not changed. Everything around it has.

[hubell]

Pulling the plug works both ways and Leica told me back at PMA it was thinking about it's own software, which in my opinion is a really BAD idea. New camera , new software can be just double trouble with bugs. We all know how long it has taken Phase and Hassy for that matter to come up with good raw processing software and regardless what anyone thinks it was not a overnight sensation in either case but long development time . Now obviously Leica S2 files are DNG and can be supported by Lightroom and CS4 but is that going to be the best raw processing software for there files. All remains to be seen. As far as who pulled the plug that is a backend decision that happened in board meetings and we will never know and frankly who cares it is what is in the users hands that counts

Fact: Phase has closed its Capture One software to every other maker of medium format digital products over the years. It would not be surprising if they decided to continue that policy with Leica's S2.

[Doug Peterson]

Fact: Phase has closed its Capture One software to every other maker of medium format digital products over the years. It would not be surprising if they decided to continue that policy with Leica's S2.

Untrue: Capture One has supported the Mamiya ZD since May of 2008 (C1 4.1).

Also of note Capture One supports both reading/writing DNGs and is the only medium format software which supports a myriad of dSLR formats, including tethering for most Nikon and Canon dSLRs. C1 is, by *far*, the most open medium format software available.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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[hubell]

Untrue: Capture One has supported the Mamiya ZD since May of 2008 (C1 4.1).

Also of note Capture One supports both reading/writing DNGs and is the only medium format software which supports a myriad of dSLR formats, including tethering for most Nikon and Canon dSLRs. C1 is, by *far*, the most open medium format software available.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

Yes, Capture One has been quite the open piece of software for users of backs from Phase's medium format competitors over the years. That ZD has been a big threat.
BTW, what about the current owners of Leaf backs. Does Phase's acquisition of Leaf include taking over the warranty obligations of Leaf ?

[brentward]

Untrue: Capture One has supported the Mamiya ZD since May of 2008 (C1 4.1).

Also of note Capture One supports both reading/writing DNGs and is the only medium format software which supports a myriad of dSLR formats, including tethering for most Nikon and Canon dSLRs. C1 is, by *far*, the most open medium format software available.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

Doug,

Have you heard anything about if C1 Pro will support LEAF files now?

[Steve Hendrix]

Yes, Capture One has been quite the open piece of software for users of backs from Phase's medium format competitors over the years. That ZD has been a big threat.
BTW, what about the current owners of Leaf backs. Does Phase's acquisition of Leaf include taking over the warranty obligations of Leaf ?

Howard

You know how much Phase One users have suffered over the years because Flexcolor was not open to them.

Couldn't sleep last night?    


Steve

[photo570]

Doug,

Have you heard anything about if C1 Pro will support LEAF files now?

Oh God I hope not.

A large part of why a lot of people choose a particular MFDB is the software and workflow.

Now I know a lot of people like C1, and it has taken Leaf a while to get LC11 right (don't even mention LC10), but for god sake don't F*** with it.

If they are going to keep it as a separate brand, do it properly, and maintain the software as well. As the nightmare of trying to get all Leaf backs to work with C1, like Valeo's or C-Most's, or heaven forbid a Volare, not just the shiny new Aptus' will suck up as many if not more resources than just maintaining LC11 I would think.

Depressed multiple Leaf owner.

:-(

[Guy Mancuso]

Yes, Capture One has been quite the open piece of software for users of backs from Phase's medium format competitors over the years. That ZD has been a big threat.
BTW, what about the current owners of Leaf backs. Does Phase's acquisition of Leaf include taking over the warranty obligations of Leaf ?

The ink is still a little wet don't you think. I'm sure it is being figured out but why would it not they own it now. With that goes the whole bowl of wax. I love the Hassy owners , question Phocus will process what exactly Hassy and only Hassy. Not a bad thing but throwing Phase under the bus is pretty freaking silly here don't you think when it supports almost every DSLR in the market and a ton of 4/3rds and P&S camera's, not to mention leica DMR and M8. Siner and leaf software as well only process there files. Let's not forget tethering as well on a lot of systems. So Phase is the ugly two sided monster here. Sorry i have to laugh at this stuff.

[Guy Mancuso]

Oh God I hope not.

A large part of why a lot of people choose a particular MFDB is the software and workflow.

Now I know a lot of people like C1, and it has taken Leaf a while to get LC11 right (don't even mention LC10), but for god sake don't F*** with it.

If they are going to keep it as a separate brand, do it properly, and maintain the software as well. As the nightmare of trying to get all Leaf backs to work with C1, like Valeo's or C-Most's, or heaven forbid a Volare, not just the shiny new Aptus' will suck up as many if not more resources than just maintaining LC11 I would think.

Depressed multiple Leaf owner.

:-(

Be nice if you still had the choice between them and my bet is you will at least for awhile. Stuff like this just does not happen overnight. But again we still don't know what the current plans are and what they will be. This may take a while to get it all under wraps. Anyway for me the thought of a S2 is slipping very fast and will just sit still until a new body comes out from Phase and may move up to the P40+. Other than that getting great files and just happy to be shooting something that works every time without fail with great files and a nice workflow for me. My buying gear slut days are on major hold.

[hubell]

The ink is still a little wet don't you think.

Not if you are an owner of a Leaf back or an AFI camera.
When you buy a business like that of Leaf, you generally have two choices. You can buy all of the assets and take on the associated liabilities(e.g., future warranty obligations), or you can cherry pick the assets and leave the liabilities behind with the seller(i.e., Kodak's subsidiary in this case). I'm thinking Phase went with the second option.[G] We'll see. If they did, they will have one hell of a pissed off Leaf customer base.
BTW, what new Phase body? Didn't the President of Phase One say here on LL recently that they were turning over a new leaf and would not announce new products before they were ready to ship?

[Graham Mitchell]

When you buy a business like that of Leaf, you generally have two choices. You can buy all of the assets and take on the associated liabilities(e.g., future warranty obligations), or you can cherry pick the assets and leave the liabilities behind with the seller(i.e., Kodak's subsidiary in this case). I'm thinking Phase went with the second option.[G] We'll see. If they did, they will have one hell of a pissed off Leaf customer base.

It was already officially announced that they went with option 2.

[tho_mas]

'Japanese companies are hugely quality focussed, taking their time,' says Hakonsson. 'However, Mamiya is already working a new system of camera and lenses for later this year and you will see an increase in the speed of development.'

tricky statement. Now Mamiya doesn't focuss on quality anymore and instead goes the Phase way... or what?

[John_Black]

Untrue: Capture One has supported the Mamiya ZD since May of 2008 (C1 4.1).

AFTER Phase announced the strategic alliance with Mamiya in November 2007.  It's not like Phase engineers went to work one random day and charitably decided, "Oh gee, lets make the C1 work with MEF files.  That'll be fun."  Part of the announcement included Phase stating C1 would support MEF files.  Six months later they released the update with only ONE profile for the ZD, whereas Phase One backs have four or five profiles.  Phase One delivered C1 support for MEFs, but at a minimal level.

[JDG]

AFTER Phase announced the strategic alliance with Mamiya in November 2007.  It's not like Phase engineers went to work one random day and charitably decided, "Oh gee, lets make the C1 work with MEF files.  That'll be fun."  Part of the announcement included Phase stating C1 would support MEF files.  Six months later they released the update with only ONE profile for the ZD, whereas Phase One backs have four or five profiles.  Phase One delivered C1 support for MEFs, but at a minimal level.

Minimal for Phase yes, but having one camera specific color profile is still far more than Lightroom and ACR which basically assume the same generic color profile for all cameras.

[michael]

Capture One has had their "Looks Editor" for a long time and Camera Raw and Lightroom have their DNG Color Editor. If you don't like the supplied default profiles and want to roll your own it's pretty straightforward with either program.

Michael

[Doug Peterson]

Six months later they released the update with only ONE profile for the ZD, whereas Phase One backs have four or five profiles.  Phase One delivered C1 support for MEFs, but at a minimal level.

True, but have you processed an MEF through both C1 and LightRoom?

If I were a ZD owner I would be extremely pleased.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

[Guy Mancuso]

I have and a world of difference with a ZD. But sold it bought a Phase back

And Phase files look like total crap in LR and removed LR completely from my system. So has Jack actually. We both hated what LR was doing to the Phase files. Now that was a version ago so not sure today what they look like today. But they came in about 1.5 stops too dark and the color temp was all over the map with them. Certainly was not tuned for Phase files. I gave up and removed it. Admittedly though i am a C1 diehard been using it since the Canon 1DS and every camera since than.