lumix dmc-g1 silent, or other quiet cameras?

[sgiovinco]

Hi,

Ok, please put your thinking caps on.  Here's what I'm looking for:
--Silent (shutter/everything)
--Articulated LCD
--10 MP, ideally 12
--Live View
--Good lens and image quality

I'm a fine art photographer looking to photograph people as unabtrustively as possilble, and will produce 30x40" prints.

Here's what I've found so far:

I was thinking about the Lumix G1 but found it too noisy; the Olymus EP-1 seems like it has a shutter sound as well, and lacks an articlulated LCD.  

I've toyed with using a ZigView, a third-party product that adds a flexible LCD panel to some camera's eye piece, but most DSLR's still have a flipping mirror and shutter sound.

The Canon 5D has a "silent mode" but it still produces a "click", unless I am doing something wrong.

A camera Blimp is too obtrusive but a "Camera Muzzle" might work wrapped around the lens and camera body.

I heard about an 45 degree mirror accessory that attaches to an LCD that acts as a waist finder viewer but am not sure if this works.

Any other thoughts?  Older digicamera?  Sony R1?  Other camera's or accessories I've not thought of?

Thanks!

[dalethorn]

Hi,
I'm looking for a silent, 12mp camera with interchangeable lenses.  It seems the closest is the lumix dmc-g1, but the shutter still makes a sound.  Is there a way to make it completely silent?  Since there is no mirror flipping, why is there a shutter noise at all?  Also, does anyone know if the new Olympus E-P1 or lumix dmc-gh1--or any other camera--is silent?
Thanks!  Steve

The G1 isn't merely non-silent - the shutter is very noisy and adds vibration, almost like a flip-up mirror.  They decided on a focal plane shutter instead of an electronic shutter.  I remember the Leica M film cameras had a mechanical shutter, but it was much quieter than the G1, which is odd, that a mechanical camera would be quieter than an electronic camera.

I don't know if this has any relevance to the G1, but it's a fact that legislation was introduced in the U.S. congress a couple of years back to force all consumer cameras to have a shutter noise loud enough that people in the near vicinity could hear it clearly.  Apparently there were too many problems with that bill, so it's not law (yet).

[Per Ofverbeck]

The G1 isn't merely non-silent - the shutter is very noisy and adds vibration, almost like a flip-up mirror.....

Well, your G1 must be a different breed...  

While you can indeed hear it (and there is no "silent mode" available), it´s very discreet, far less than a RF Leica.  I´d say the noise level is about the same as my old TLR Rolleiflex with leaf shutter, although the character of the sound is quite different.

As for vibration... There are a couple of thin plastic leaves moving in opposite directions, thus eliminating any resultant force.  They weigh next to nothing; a mirror weighs several orders of magnitude more, and it moves in one direction at a time, giving a net reaction force on the camera.

I shoot a lot with old Leica lenses on my G1, up to 90 mm (that is the equivalent of 180 mm).  They have no image stabilisation, and yet I´ve no problems shooting free hand down to around 1/30 sec, and a fair chance of success down to 1/8.  So much for vibration...

If you want a really quiet camera, get an old Leica Digilux 2, and turn off the stupid sound effects in the menu.  Even the focus and zoom are soundless.  You CAN hear the lens stopping down if you put your ear to it...

[aaykay]

I don't know if this has any relevance to the G1, but it's a fact that legislation was introduced in the U.S. congress a couple of years back to force all consumer cameras to have a shutter noise loud enough that people in the near vicinity could hear it clearly.  Apparently there were too many problems with that bill, so it's not law (yet).

So, just to play a bit of devil's advocate with this stupid bill,  why would it only matter for "people in the near vicinity" ?  I suppose anybody whose photograph is being taken unobstrusively, would be concerned, if the reasoning behind the bill is taken to its logical conclusion.  And thus even telephotos would need to come under the purview of the "shutter sound being heard clearly".  And if so, how loud would the shutter have to be, so that someone who is being shot with a 500mm telephoto lens, would be able to "hear the shutter clearly" ?!   Also, would it have to also be loud enough to wake up a sleeping baby, who is being photographed ?  

No wonder there are "too many problems" with this stupid bill.  Who was the champion of this bill, incidentally ?

[aaykay]

If you want a really quiet camera, get an old Leica Digilux 2, and turn off the stupid sound effects in the menu.  Even the focus and zoom are soundless.  You CAN hear the lens stopping down if you put your ear to it...

Cameras like the Leica Digilux are equipped with miniscule p&s sensors.  The only large sensored camera that I know of, which is literally wisper quiet (after you turn off the stupid sound effects in the menu), is the Sony DSC-R1, with its near APS-C sized 1.67x sensor (larger than the sensor in the Panasonic G1).

In comparison to the R1's silence, the G1's sound is very prominent.

[Jeremy Payne]

but it's a fact that legislation was introduced in the U.S. congress a couple of years back to force all consumer cameras to have a shutter noise loud enough that people in the near vicinity could hear it clearly.

I believe you are talking about HR 4.1.4 that was introduced in January of 2009 by Peter King of NY - "The Camera Phone Predator Alert Act" ... This was intended only to cover mobile phones with cameras.

"Requires any mobile phone containing a digital camera to sound a tone whenever a photograph is taken with the camera's phone. Prohibits such a phone from being equipped with a means of disabling or silencing the tone. Treats the requirement as a consumer product safety standard and requires enforcement by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC)."

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d1...mp;summ2=m&