Phase Acquires Leaf

[John Camp]

I suspect that behind the scenes there has been a fairly desperate struggle for survival in a dwindling sales environment, and Leaf is the loser (same as looser.) We're really getting back to the film days -- the big shooter cameras were the RZ and the Hassy, and a bunch of somewhat smaller players in niches, like the Rolleis and the Big Pentax, Contax, etc. But the MF market wasn't all that big then, and it isn't now, and costs being what they are, I think we're going to wind up with two big players, and...

Leica? The new Leica now seems to me much LESS viable than formerly, because the disappearance of Leaf seems to confirm the weakness of the market. If sales are indeed weak, it would take a brave photographer to invest several tens of thousands of dollars in a new system, in a market which has slain all but two systems.    

JC

[Carsten W]

Leica? The new Leica now seems to me much LESS viable than formerly, because the disappearance of Leaf seems to confirm the weakness of the market. If sales are indeed weak, it would take a brave photographer to invest several tens of thousands of dollars in a new system, in a market which has slain all but two systems.

Leica has recently gone on the record saying that they estimate the market at 10000 units per year, of which they hope to break a two digit percentage. This seems reasonable to me, with an attractive, different platform which can steal away a little market share.

[YYZ]

I suspect that behind the scenes there has been a fairly desperate struggle for survival in a dwindling sales environment, and Leaf is the loser (same as looser.) We're really getting back to the film days -- the big shooter cameras were the RZ and the Hassy, and a bunch of somewhat smaller players in niches, like the Rolleis and the Big Pentax, Contax, etc. But the MF market wasn't all that big then, and it isn't now, and costs being what they are, I think we're going to wind up with two big players, and...

Leica? The new Leica now seems to me much LESS viable than formerly, because the disappearance of Leaf seems to confirm the weakness of the market. If sales are indeed weak, it would take a brave photographer to invest several tens of thousands of dollars in a new system, in a market which has slain all but two systems.    

JC

You are right, the market for medium format is not what it used to be but I think it is a win/win situation for Phase and Leaf. Think of the money saved by Phase and Leaf not having to duplicate many of their services. I think the unfortunate part is the end of the AFi. It had some very cool innovations and great quality lenses. I wonder if it is dead or just in hibernation.

[sdai]

It's all about business and making money, I would do the same if I were the Chief of Phase. F/H is no position to bargain ... they can be had in a yard sale.

It would be interesting to see how Phase is gonna play with market segmentation with two elite brands (Phase/Leaf) while using Mamiya to cater the mid-low end in the next step, the markets for low end MFDB and highend 35mm DSLR will soon converge.

The real big loser is Kodak in this drama, my guess is they'll quit from the image sensor business altogether pretty soon since their CEO has openly said they'll limit their investment in image sensor group and seek a partner (back in February this year).

Congratulations to Phase, Leaf and their employees.

[mtomalty]

So, what's the new name going to be?
Pheaf
Lase
Phameaf
Lephamiya
Lease

PLEASE

[Carsten W]

PLEASE

Phleamiya.

[AndreNapier]

As one of the very few LL users of AFI, I unfortunately have to agree with P1 that AFI platform has no potential. I do not really want to go publicly in details about AFI faults but I would only say that the day I received AFI back to Rz body plates was a great, happy day for me.  
I pack the AFI bodies and left them in storage for collectibles.
Andre

[aaanorton]

This bit seems interesting:

The new entity will also enter into an intellectual property license with Eastman Kodak Company that is royalty bearing to Kodak.

I wonder how the idea of buying Kodak chips through Phase One would go over at Hasselblad. Now that would be funny.
Maybe there'd be another camera for Phase after all.

[Frank Doorhof]

Not sure why photographers should see this as being good news.

The logical consequence of this will be less options, and I wouldn't be optimistic in terms of this driving prices down.

@Bernard,
I also was surprised with Phase one but I'm very happy with it.
I think it was this or the loss of the Leaf system which in my opinion would not be a good thing.
I'm absolutly confinced that the Leaf file quality is the best on the market (although all brands are very close now a days) and combining this with Phase one will probably give the both companies an incredible boost in R&D and could very well put Phase One in a totally different market share than it is now.

In the end however one thing counts for me and that is that Leaf is not dissapearing.

[Carsten W]

I do not really want to go publicly in details about AFI faults but I would only say that the day I received AFI back to Rz body plates was a great, happy day for me.

If you say that there is something wrong with the body, then I think you should also say why.

[locpham]

If you say that there is something wrong with the body, then I think you should also say why.

I agree.  I would really appreciate the feedback on the AFi body and its issues.

[rethmeier]

Yes Andre,
it's time to spill the beans on the AFi.
Regards,
Willem.

[jimgolden]

PLEASE

classic...

[EricWHiss]

I definitely read the news as good news since I was hoping that some deal would revive the Hy6 and maybe allow a path for a phase back to find its way onto the camera.

I never upgraded my 6008's to Hy6's because I was pretty happy with the camera as it was and the way I looked at it - the 6008 AF is at the final end of development while the Hy6 was just born.  I don't doubt that there could be some bugs with the first version of the Hy6 if not just the color scheme - however take a look at the phase / mamiya AFD?  What's that now 4th generation with the new Phase model?  And still a lot of issues like sync speed and mirror vibration.  What was the H1 like? and how much better is the H3II?    How are the lenses compared to the Rollei system?  Sure is nice to have all the leaf shutters ...

I really like the lenses with this system and hope that something will surface....

[paratom]

As one of the very few LL users of AFI, I unfortunately have to agree with P1 that AFI platform has no potential. I do not really want to go publicly in details about AFI faults but I would only say that the day I received AFI back to Rz body plates was a great, happy day for me.  
I pack the AFI bodies and left them in storage for collectibles.
Andre

Andre, I would also be interested why you think so.
I am quite happy with the Hy6 - the only real thing where I see room for improvement is the AF.
Other than that I really like the handling, specially the rotating sensor/ back is also a great plus IMO.

[patrickfransdesmet]

resistance is futile, you will be assimilated
we are PHASE (B O R G )

MFDB market is too smaal
There can be only ONE

PHASE ONE

It showed to be the most realiable back and the best software

Hasselblad H users I know complain about many defects and poor support ...

[patrickfransdesmet]

we better be ware, that FILM does not outlive MFDB's

while we all favour digital and MFDB's the market is so small and shrinking
that it is not impossible, it will disappear completely
in favour of DSLR's (99% does not care about the quality of MFDB's anyway)

So maybe, MF Film, will remain longer that MFDB

Another reason to keep your Blads and RZ's  

[Graham Mitchell]

So, what's the new name going to be?

PLAYA (pronounced 'player')

I win.

[Voltman]

As someone about to write a check to purchase a P65+ to go along with a myriad of recently acquired RZ67 kit (albeit used) this news at first glance frankly scares the hell out of me given Phase One now controls Mamiya and Leaf.  After some thought and a few fact checks though I basically came to the conjecture that Phase One had no other choice in both acquisitions.....

- Kodak purchased Creo ("Leaf") in 2005 for nearly $1B USD.  Now on the brink of Chapter 11 they start peddling the Leaf team and products around to others.  Now they're selling for an undisclosed <next to nothing> price (which we'll find out in time with their SEC filings) with basically a walkout by the Leaf team management.

- Leaf management team likely didn't like the other suitors e.g. Sony, Nikon, and Canon, giving them the leverage to organize a walkout.

- Along comes Phase One, reminded by Leaf management of what would happen if the Leaf team screwed off to one of the big boys (so now where will Sony, Nikon, or Canon get the technology to deprecate existing lines? or do they stick with FF 35mm equivalent lines and choke on their small mounts and optics?)

- Buckets of money and royalty agreements ensue - all happy that the MF digital world is safe from control by one of the bigger players.  All 100 Phase One employees, 150 Mamiya employees, and 25 from Leaf team stay employed - for now.  Kodak gets royalties from its IP moving forward and saves face as it best can with the shareholders. Phase One doesn't face competition so quickly from Sony, Nikon, and Canon. Everyone is happy about the business except the consumers and Sinar, who Phase One is determined to burden as the lone supporter of the AFI system in a good spirit of competitive non-competition. Adios to 6x6 digital.

- The Mamiya thing was certainly more friendly but got a bit odd in the end with Mamiya offering Leaf solutions, all the while outsourcing their own backs to Phase One in the end.  Could a Leaf / Mamiya deal inked a year ago played a part in forcing Phase One's hand? Or perhaps simply a one night stand to force the wedding?

- Now we wind up with 3 different back solutions and a single platform in design if not branding.  My guess in the end the P+ backs will win out with convergence in the coming year, along with the software converging.  As for the platforms well I guess 645AFDIII/P645 isn't ideal but maybe the new "DF" is better than a Hassy? At least my RZ kit seems viable through it all, possibly with an upgrade path to a 6x7 sensor with huge touch LCD in 2-3 years?  

- And --what if-- this spending spree combined with a slow market tumble Phase One as a whole down the tubes?  Perhaps my nice shiny new P65+ will end up with the same fate as my Contax 645 and DCS Pro Back - with no support and no upgrade path?

Interesting times to buy a digital MF back - but then again if I were shopping for an Amercan car it'd have to be a Ford -)

--Brett

[ThierryH]

Are you sure, Graham? What about:

PLAYAIR (pronounce also "player")

 

Thierry

PLAYA (pronounced 'player')

I win.