Phase Acquires Leaf

[Boris_Epix]

in any way, the Hy6 would have needed a stronger dealer network.

I don't think that is the case. MFDB's and cameras should be more trouble-free and Hasselblad, PhaseOne, etc could simply ship directly to the end-user skipping the middle-man.

I know many dealer reps will disagree and tout their horn about how good their support is. But honestly, in the end the manufacturer is responsible for support and the dealer is not doing much more than forwarding your box to the manufacturer and possibly handing you a camera while the camera is "in the shop". If the software has a programming bug or the back an error what can the dealer do about it? Witchcraft? Reprogram the software?

How can a dealer know a camera better than a photographer that is working with them every day all day long? This is riddiculous.

If manufacturers posted meaningful test-images, example images, required software, training-videos and tutorials (how to use their products best), etc freely available on their webpage why would you need a dealer? To answer questions? Yeah sure.
Give users the email and telephone number of the support team. If you want Thierry, Yaya and their mates spend less time on the phone give users an online userforum. They will help and offer advice to each other like they do here on Luminous Landscape or Dpreview, etc.

No photographer is buying his MFDB because they have a great dealer next door. They see an ad or review in a magazine. A friend that uses that back. A backstage video on youtube. Whatever.

The medium format companies that haven't died yet are starting to open up (freely available software, compatible files, forums, etc) and start to offer cheaper deals. Things are happening that should have happened 5 years ago. I wonder how long it will take MFDB manufacturers to skip the middle-man (dealers) to stay competitive. After all MFDB is a VIP business. It costs a fortune to get in and stay in and you want to talk DIRECTLY to the guy that can give you the best answer. You don't want to talk to a sales person.

Selling cameras is no longer a camera business. It's more like computer business. You need to keep the wheel spinning. Selling a back every five years is not going to work. You need customers comming back. Hasselblad got far more aggressive with pricing. But if Hasselblad really wanted to kill Phase One the only thing they'd need to do is copy DELL. Good products for the lowest possible price shipped directly to your door.

PhaseOne could try a different strategy. Instead of the Value added bullshit they could offer a "yearly upgrade" program. You agree to pay 10k$ every year or 850$ monthly and get a (free) upgrade every year. That way Phase would get a more predictable income flow, better economy of scale, no old backs in the market (that could keep anyone from not buying a new back). Many professional photographers want to have always the newest and greatest but not at 40'000$ a pop. Huge resolution as a sale proposition is dead. Retouching a 39 Megapixel file with a couple layers in Photoshop is immediately a 1-2 GB file. I don't know who would want to have a single 100 Megapixel file consume 10 GB. To print a double page spread? How can you keep photographers come back and buy a new back? At some point even the most demanding photographer is satisfied. A 10k$ a year business investment however is like an insurance policy. You'll never deal with old equipment that could stop working because it's too old.

[PeterA]

...

The medium format companies that haven't died yet are starting to open up (freely available software, compatible files, forums, etc) and start to offer cheaper deals. Things are happening that should have happened 5 years ago. .... After all MFDB is a VIP business. It costs a fortune to get in and stay in and you want to talk DIRECTLY to the guy that can give you the best answer. You don't want to talk to a sales person.

PhaseOne could try a different strategy. Instead of the Value added bullshit they could offer a "yearly upgrade" program. You agree to pay 10k$ every year or 850$ monthly and get a (free) upgrade every year. That way Phase would get a more predictable income flow, better economy of scale, no old backs in the market (that could keep anyone from not buying a new back). Many professional photographers want to have always the newest and greatest but not at 40'000$ a pop. Huge resolution as a sale proposition is dead. Retouching a 39 Megapixel file with a couple layers in Photoshop is immediately a 1-2 GB file. I don't know who would want to have a single 100 Megapixel file consume 10 GB. To print a double page spread? How can you keep photographers come back and buy a new back? At some point even the most demanding photographer is satisfied. A 10k$ a year business investment however is like an insurance policy. You'll never deal with old equipment that could stop working because it's too old.

Very 'smart' comment on how to rid market of used backs - provide upgrade path for a fixed cost pa. - this woudl generate a revenue stream that is a much better business model.
Also I wish that companies continue to improve their sites and deliver more technical information - again an excellent point.
Finally - transparency in pricing would seal the deal.

None of this is difficult to put in place - except I hear all the time that 'pro' users need immediate camera replacement in case of failure...I cant comment on this - as I hav enever had a failure in Leaf/hasselblad/Phase One or Sinar backs I have used. maybe I have just been lucky?

[FlashDB]

my idea was "leave 1" but yours is much better!

Well then, it might be "Please One"  

[tho_mas]

PhaseOne could try a different strategy. Instead of the Value added bullshit they could offer a "yearly upgrade" program. You agree to pay 10k$ every year or 850$ monthly and get a (free) upgrade every year.

Strange idea. If you decided for, say, a P45+ due to long exposure would you be happy about the P65+ as an upgrade?
Too, I don't think that most of the photographers like to upgrade yearly and maybe have fight with firmware and software flaws every year.
Too, the product circle is too short.
And why should customers pay in advance for a product they don't know yet at all? Really strange.

[Boris_Epix]

Strange idea. If you decided for, say, a P45+ due to long exposure would you be happy about the P65+ as an upgrade?
Too, I don't think that most of the photographers like to upgrade yearly and maybe have fight with firmware and software flaws every year.
Too, the product circle is too short.
And why should customers pay in advance for a product they don't know yet at all? Really strange.

Thomas: It was an IDEA how to keep MFDB's alive. Let's not nit-pick details. Possibly an upgrade every two years would work just as well. You can consider the P45+ a milked cow. Maybe they can squeeze out some more drops of milk but people that wanted one got one by now. Question is how long Kodak will stay in the MFDB sensor business and what quantities MFDB makers need to buy from them to keep the production at Kodak going.

I hope you're not basing your entire camera purchase on long-exposure and neglecting all other features/specs. I don't really understand the need for extremely long exposure anyway. If sensitivity is high and noise low you can work around it. Stacking exposures, focus stacking, noise filtering plugins and so on. The P45+ long exposure feature seems more like a freak accident than a feature requirement. Better LCD's would have been a feature requirement.

I wrote a little rant on Apr 29th. Interesting how close I came.

I have absolutely no clue about business numbers and all this is wild ass guessing but my ignorant market perception is that F&H will go completely belly up, Leaf will not have their shared Rollei/Sinar/Leaf Hy6/AFI platform any longer. Instead of crawling to Mamiya they'll just go belly up because Leaf AFI photographers will be pissed and invested. Kodak will stop throwing money at Leaf. Steve Hendrix changed to the PhaseOne camp. Calumet stopped selling Leaf. First signs?

Sinar is small enough to get out of the MFDB business altogether as indicated by the colaboration with Leaf producing some of their backs. Also Thierry that helped many people here at LL was laid off by Sinar. And PhaseOne suddenly switching to Dalsa sensors would indicate that Kodak could stop producing MFDB sensors or at least further development.

So now it's PhaseMiya and Hasselblad remaining. Slowly Canon, Nikon and Leica S2 type cameras will become better in many areas where MFDB's had their biggest strengths and they will cost 10 times less with all the added convinience, working workflows, great multipoint AF, improved colors/whitebalance, etc.

Some more wild ass guesses. I expect if things continue the way they do now we may see another generation of PhaseOne and Hasselblad backs based on Dalsa sensors sometime 2011. After that the user base will be (so extremely) happy with what they have they will simply stop upgrading. The long-exposure people will still have their P45+, the pixelfreaks a 60+ megapixel back to fill their harddisks, the good enough people will have sold their P45+ for 12k$ and bought three D700x or 5DMK3 instead and people that love innovation will have moved to RED.com

2012 Hasselblad and Phase One will file for chapter 11 or MASSIVELY reduce their staff. Professional high-end photographers and hobbyists may continue using their MFDB's but suddenly Apples and Microsofts new operating system is all 64bit with no legacy 32bit mode. Suddenly your 32 bit Capture One v5 or Phocus 2 will only run on slow antique computers.


Check this out. Have you ever seen such rich colors and natural, filmlike (and the same time lifelike) skin from a MFDB (or DSLR)? Red is the future. FF35, 6x45 or 6x17.

Incredible Red Example Video - DSMC

[mcfoto]

From British Journal Of Photography
(quote)
Title: Leaf AFi system faces uncertain future after Phase One tie-up
Feature: Daily News
Date: 30 June 2009

Leaf's only medium format camera system faces an uncertain future after Phase One announced it would acquire Leaf's assets. BJP talks to Phase One's CEO Henrik O Hakonsson

Last week, Phase One confirmed rumours of an impending wave of consolidation in the medium format camera market by agreeing to form a new company, Leaf Imaging Ltd, which will purchase Leaf’s assets and enter into an intellectual property licence with Eastman Kodak Company.

Phase One manufactures digital camera backs and has one medium format camera system – the Phase One 645 – using technology from Mamiya. The latter is majority-owned by Phase One. Leaf produces the Aptus digital back and the AFi camera system.

However, in an exclusive interview with BJP, Henrik O Håkonsson, president and CEO at Phase One says that the new partnership could spell the end of the AFi system. ‘The Leaf AFi is a camera system that is currently on hold,’ he tells BJP. ‘We have to determine if it is commercially viable and we are still not convinced by it. The new company – Leaf Imaging Ltd – has the rights for the Leaf AFi but we are not going to produce it.’

The future of the Leaf AFi system had already been put into question after it was revealed in March that German manu-facturer Franke & Heidecke was forced to enter into admin-istration. Franke & Heidecke owns and develops new products for the legendary Rolleiflex twin-lens camera system, but it also produces a 6x6 format camera body for both Leaf and Sinar – the AFi and the Hy6 respectively (BJP, 18 March).

‘The Leaf AFi is still an interesting system,’ says Philippe Lefebvre, the sales and marketing director of Kodak in Europe. ‘However, it’s future will mostly depend on Franke & Heidecke’s situation, which should be resolved one way or another at the end of July.’

Reassurance
Peartree, the UK’s key Leaf provider, has moved to reassure consumers that the AFi system is still a popular system. ‘Currently the future of the AFi is directly linked to the situation with Franke & Heidecke and all we know at this time is there are a number suitors seeking to purchase a controlling interest in the company,’ Andy Quiney of Peartree Photo tells BJP. ‘However, we must stress that the AFi has been an extremely popular system with strong sales since its launch in the UK over a year ago. It’s also proved to be our most popular rental solution namely the AFi II 10, which shoots 56 million pixels, maximising the full use of the fantastic Schneider AF lenses.’

However, Quiney adds: ‘One of our specialist areas has been technical cameras and their integration with digital backs and to this end, we will be adding a number of additional demo and rental units from a variety of specialists over the coming months.’

If Franke & Heidecke goes bankrupt, Phase One could still decide to continue producing the AFi system through Mamiya, which it has owned since last April (BJP, 01 April).

In the meantime, Phase One is putting the final touches to its deal to purchase Leaf’s assets through the newly-created Leaf Imaging. ‘We’ve tried for a long time to put Phase One and Leaf together,’ says Håkonsson. ‘There are very good product and technology synergies between the two companies, and there are a lot of very good people on both teams.’

The deal, according to Håkonsson, will allow Phase One to get its hand on some ‘very talented’ developers. ‘We are very interested in the talented people on the research and development team at Leaf. It’s very difficult to find people able to ensure the highest image quality in the medium format camera market.’

As part of the deal, Leaf digital camera equipment will continue to be developed in Israel and marketed under the Leaf brand. Dov Kalinski, currently general manager of Leaf, will take on the leading position at the new company Leaf Imaging. Kalinski didn’t return calls for comment as BJP went to press.

Greater choice
The tie-up will allow Phase One to gain greater shares of the medium format camera market, which counts Hasselblad and Sinar as its main competitors. However, as a result of the takeover, the company doesn’t plan to phase out Leaf’s other product – the Aptus II digital camera back. ‘There is a strong following for Leaf’s camera back. We would rather offer customers greater choice than just one cheaper product,’ says Håkonsson.’

Similarly, Phase One will not change Leaf’s distributions agreements in countries such as France, the US, Japan and the UK, where Peartree is the principal distributor and service provider. However, in smaller markets, Phase One’s sales team will take over Leaf’s operations.

Source:

© Incisive Media Ltd. 2009
Incisive Media Limited, Haymarket House, 28-29 Haymarket, London SW1Y 4RX, is a company registered in the United Kingdom with company registration number 04038503

[ynp]

From British Journal Of Photography
(quote)
Title: Leaf AFi system faces uncertain future after Phase One tie-up
Feature: Daily News
Date: 30 June 2009




...If Franke & Heidecke goes bankrupt, Phase One could still decide to continue producing the AFi system through Mamiya, which it has owned since last April (BJP, 01 April).....

?? Mamiya Hy6??
How? April First??? Not again...
Yevgeny

[free1000]

But existing Leaf owners may be serviced by Kodak... As an A75 owner I find this rather ominous as it suggests I may not have a future upgrade route.
 
This was posted on the Leaf User Forum

Hello,

As you have probably heard, a new company – ‘Leaf Imaging’, is purchasing from Kodak specific assets of the Leaf business. In collaboration with Phase One, Leaf Imaging will continue to develop backs and workflow in Israel and market them under the Leaf brand. I strongly believe that Leaf customers will soon benefit from the close integration opportunity, and many synergies between Leaf and Phase One.

Please note that Kodak has committed to fully support Leaf customers through its distribution network and provide all the necessary services that Leaf photographers require. To ensure proper service and support to the install base, a service team will remain in Kodak, and will provide the high level of support expected from Leaf by its customers.

Ziv Argov
Leaf

[pixjohn]

Who at Leaf still have a job?

[mcfoto]

http://www.leafamerica.com/

(Leaf DB now on a Mamiya body on opening page)

[tho_mas]

http://www.leafamerica.com/
(Leaf DB now on a Mamiya body)

honestly... this looks so sad.

And Mamiya as manufacturer of the Hy6?
I can see it. First the pHyse6 with prism finder (glued, so unremovable).
And secondly the Phase Low 6 without any finder at all, just a screen  - RSS will provide an adpter plate to mount a Schneider loupe as finder.

[ThierryH]

and a subsidary question to this mathematic:

how many employees are involved from design, through manufacturing/production, to marketing/sales and distribution?

Thierry

What's better. Selling 3.3 Million Nikon DSLRs and making 100 $ profit per piece or
selling 5'000 MFDB's and making 5000$ profit a piece?

[tho_mas]

As follow up...
Confirmed: all employees of F&H to be dismissed.
German: http://www.photoscala.de/Artikel/Bei-Frank...die-Lichter-aus
Google translation: http://tinyurl.com/mxb6v8

[edwinb]

Suddenly your 32 bit Capture One v5 or Phocus 2 will only run on slow antique computers.

I enjoyed the script,  I thought however you overloooked the dng format "who needs software" direction sinar showed with its eSprit 65 LV,
in the timescale you mention I am sure larger sensor size will also use the same concepts
Edwin

[hubell]

But existing Leaf owners may be serviced by Kodak... As an A75 owner I find this rather ominous as it suggests I may not have a future upgrade route.
 
This was posted on the Leaf User Forum

Has Phase One stated on the record whether the deal with Leaf includes an assumption of Leaf's remaining warranty obligations for Leaf backs? Or, are the Leaf customers left to seek warranty service from Kodak(in which case, they may want to check in with owners of Kodak backs to see how well that worked wnen Kodak stopped making those backs but continued the servicing).

[mcfoto]

At the Leaf web site there is a gallery of photographers who use Leaf backs. I think it would be in Phase One's interest to contact all these photographers & get a PO back in their hands. Frank & myself would really like this   , I am just kidding but it would be in their interest to contact to all these photographers because they have a very high standard of work . It now looks like a 2 players left in the market. Which is PHASE/leaf & Hasselblad. And the most recent news about F&H is not promising for the future of the Hy6.

[pixjohn]

F&H is only the manufacture of the afi/hy6. If there was a market Jenoptik could work out a deal to have someone else manufacture the camera. The problem seems to be, the market is to small. Since Phase One now killed the  Leaf involvement with the camera, I don't think Sinar could support enough units.

[Boris_Epix]

I enjoyed the script,  I thought however you overloooked the dng format "who needs software" direction sinar showed with its eSprit 65 LV,
in the timescale you mention I am sure larger sensor size will also use the same concepts
Edwin

Some time ago I attended a Hasselblad workshop. Their message was to avoid DNG as the Hassy native RAW format would offer much better colors. I'm not sure how true that is or was back then.  But clearly DNG has not been adopted as widely as one would expect as this is a concern that some do have now... others will face the music in 3-5 years when current computers and software might no longer be able to open their old files.

That's not so far fetched btw as was clearly demonstrated with the Apple goes INTEL CPU issue that popped up suddenly without a previous warning and Photoshop CS4 being offered 64bit for Windows but not for Macs.

Sometimes I like to use NIK Color Efex filters. Pitty that it only works on 32 bit Photoshop but not within my 64bit Photoshop. Well people will say that 64bit PS CS4 also includes 32bit PS CS4 and that is true. But reopening 1-2 GB files and the wait for no good reason is annoying. With the 32 bit memory limitation opening such large files can take a couple minutes. It would be much worse if it just didn't work though.

Let's look at a different angle... Hardware. Suddenly computers will not offer Firewire anymore. How will you tether when your current computer breaks?

Some people will have a rude awakening.

[EricWHiss]

F&H is only the manufacture of the afi/hy6. If there was a market Jenoptik could work out a deal to have someone else manufacture the camera. The problem seems to be, the market is to small. Since Phase One now killed the  Leaf involvement with the camera, I don't think Sinar could support enough units.

Could be but perhaps all 5 of us with a pile of rollei 6000 lenses will now buy Sinar Hy6 and eSpirit backs - perhaps demand admittedly low but stays the same and Sinar wins?  Actually their new backs with DNG out are pretty nice.  The development costs are mostly already spent/sunk so to keep building cameras can't be that bad. Actually a new F&H owner who didn't have to shoulder the unspecified debt from earlier might do okay even with low volumes.  

[Boris_Epix]

and a subsidary question to this mathematic:

how many employees are involved from design, through manufacturing/production, to marketing/sales and distribution?

Thierry

Thierry, I'm sure you could offer some interesting numbers in regard to market size.

I would expect Phase One having 150 Mamiya employees on staff, about 100 of their own and now 25 Leaf staff. Then some outsourced PR folks to write specsheets for vaporware :-)

How good was my guess?

Assuming average staff costs 100k$ per year that would make around 27,5 million$ for staff. Add to this facilities, offices, workplaces (computers, working benches, etc), tooling, power, licensing fees, and then all the stuff and material they purchase from other manufacturers like sensors, LCD's, integrated circuit chips (IC's), firewire ports, Compact flash interfaces, etc.

I'd say this clearly shows Phase One's intention in regards to Leaf. 25 people can not continue to maintain and develop independant product lines.

What Phase bought was Leafs user base (market share), possibly some right to intellectual property and the possibility to license some other intellectual property from Kodak. Do they care for Leaf or Leaf users? No way. They care to make/keep Phase One successful in these difficult economic times.

No businessman is buying a failed business without an agenda.