Topic: Focus stacking with automatic ghost removal, anywhere?? (Read 7183 times)

Hening Bettermann · « **on:** June 18, 2009, 03:43:33 pm »

I am desperately looking for a focus stacker with automatic ghost removal. Is there any such thing?

Bernard, your pano in
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....t+removal\
contains moving water, but no ghosts. Since the software can do that on a pano, could this be used for focus stacking on a set of shots with different focus, but without offset between the frames?

Hopeful - Hening.

Guillermo Luijk · « **Reply #1 on:** June 22, 2009, 01:39:35 pm »

PT Assembler can be used for focus stacking with non-shifted shots to get high DOF (it uses TuFuse in the background for this). It can be combined with pano stitching as well.

Regards.

Hening Bettermann · « **Reply #2 on:** June 22, 2009, 08:23:15 pm »

Thank you, Guillermo. I'll try this out ASAP. [ Even though it's Windows... ;-) ]

Best regards - Hening.

gmitchel · « **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2009, 11:13:52 pm »

Helicon Focus is great for stacking photos and especialy for extending DOF.

If you imply want to stack or stitch and remove ghosts, you might try ptGUI.

Cheers,

Mitch

bill t. · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2009, 01:39:45 am »

If you mean the ghosts around nearby objects in a focus stack, I don't think there really is a satisfactory solution at this time. Focus stacks from say several meters to infinity usually have minimal ghosts, but a stack from one meter to infinity will always develop noticeable ghosts around the nearest objects unless there is some software I have not yet tried. Has there been some recent improvement in Helicon? Haven't looked at that in the last year.

As far as moving water goes, it rarely presents a problem in the various high dynamic range software packages. Whatever artifacts develop generally are acceptable and even pleasing within the image as is. Clouds, another flowing phenomena, are little more problematical, it is sometimes best to mask in an image made up of your single "best" exposures for the sky, while letting the rest of the image benefit from HDR processing.

usathyan · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2009, 08:28:58 am »

Quote from: Hening

I am desperately looking for a focus stacker with automatic ghost removal. Is there any such thing?

Bernard, your pano in
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....t+removal\
contains moving water, but no ghosts. Since the software can do that on a pano, could this be used for focus stacking on a set of shots with different focus, but without offset between the frames?

Hopeful - Hening.

What do you mean "ghosts" - blur from motion (people, water etc) ? Artifacts from merging (like in Photomatix) or alignment issues something else? I have used Helicon Focus with great success. TuFuse seems to be very promising for merging DOF while also providing exposure fusion...

Hening Bettermann · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2009, 09:02:55 am »

Thank you, all who have replied.

>What do you mean "ghosts" - blur from motion (people, water etc) ?

Yes, exactly that. Double images from vegetation that moves. - I am using Helicon Focus, wich is good at focus stacking, but no automatic ghost removal. I'll look at PTGui as well as PT Assembler.

>If you mean the ghosts around nearby objects in a focus stack, I don't think there really is a satisfactory solution at this time. Focus stacks from say several meters to infinity usually have minimal ghosts, but a stack from one meter to infinity will always develop noticeable ghosts around the nearest objects unless there is some software I have not yet tried.

I have not noticed *this* kind of ghosts, maybe because my nearest objects typically are a little more distant than just one meter.

Best regards - Hening.

usathyan · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2009, 11:29:43 am »

[quote name='Hening' date='Jun 23 2009, 09:02 AM' post='293185']
Thank you, all who have replied.

>What do you mean "ghosts" - blur from motion (people, water etc) ?

Yes, exactly that. Double images from vegetation that moves. - I am using Helicon Focus, wich is good at focus stacking, but no automatic ghost removal. I'll look at PTGui as well as PT Assembler.

--------------

Regarding the double images - i am not aware of any tool (except the median filter) - that may eliminate it...your best bet is to overlay the original image and use photoshop brush to reveal original area....

Well, if everything was automatic...there wouldnt be any need for photographers...would it?

Jack Flesher · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2009, 11:49:19 am »

Quote from: usathyan

I am using Helicon Focus, wich is good at focus stacking, but no automatic ghost removal. I'll look at PTGui as well as PT Assembler.

--------------

Regarding the double images - i am not aware of any tool (except the median filter) - that may eliminate it...

Helicon does have a brush tool that lets you edit the auto mask on each layer. This is what I use to eliminate the ghosting on the rare occasion it is problematic.

Cheers,

Hening Bettermann · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2009, 02:55:26 pm »

Quote from: Jack Flesher

Helicon does have a brush tool that lets you edit the auto mask on each layer. This is what I use to eliminate the ghosting on the rare occasion it is problematic.

Cheers,

Thanks for your answers!

I have used Helicon's brush, but found Photoshop's Healing tool easier to use. Maybe I have to look into it again.

Did you say "rare occasions" ?? Lucky you!

Kind regards - Hening.

Hening Bettermann · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2009, 07:31:34 pm »

Hi

Well I have now looked on the web sites of both PT Assembler, PTGui and AutoPano Pro, and I could not find any automatic ghost removal anywhere. So it seems that the short answer to my initial question is NO. So I am back with Helicon.

> Helicon does have a brush tool that lets you edit the auto mask on each layer.

Jack, how does this work? Do you have to retouch on the detail level, or can you cover a gross area which is then excluded from the stack; something like Guillermo's Amenabar? http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=13139

Say if you have an area with moving grass, could you cover that area with a broad brush, or would you have to retouch every leave of grass?

Almost all of my subjects need focus stacking, and almost always there is something that moves...

(As I said above, I tried Helicon's retouching tool earlier, did not find it useful and therefore settled for the lite version of Helicon Focus. If memory serves me, back then (november 2008) the retouching had to be done on the final image, on every "leave of grass", and it could only be done until the resulting image was saved. That's why I preferred Photoshop's Healing tool, where I could use layers and go back to resume working. - Now, there does not seem to be an option to try the pro version of Helicon again if one has the lite version licensed (unlike if you were all blank).)

Kind regards - Hening.

Jack Flesher · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2009, 09:34:25 am »

Quote from: Hening

Hi

Well I have now looked on the web sites of both PT Assembler, PTGui and AutoPano Pro, and I could not find any automatic ghost removal anywhere. So it seems that the short answer to my initial question is NO. So I am back with Helicon.

> Helicon does have a brush tool that lets you edit the auto mask on each layer.

Jack, how does this work? Do you have to retouch on the detail level, or can you cover a gross area which is then excluded from the stack; something like Guillermo's Amenabar? http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=13139

Say if you have an area with moving grass, could you cover that area with a broad brush, or would you have to retouch every leave of grass?

Almost all of my subjects need focus stacking, and almost always there is something that moves...

(As I said above, I tried Helicon's retouching tool earlier, did not find it useful and therefore settled for the lite version of Helicon Focus. If memory serves me, back then (november 2008) the retouching had to be done on the final image, on every "leave of grass", and it could only be done until the resulting image was saved. That's why I preferred Photoshop's Healing tool, where I could use layers and go back to resume working. - Now, there does not seem to be an option to try the pro version of Helicon again if one has the lite version licensed (unlike if you were all blank).)

Kind regards - Hening.

If you are using the latest build, then it works like this:

You select any one of your source images, and "clone" or "copy" to the final with the brush, by just painting on the area of the final you want to repair/correct. The brush can be adjusted for size and from soft to hard edged, so you can edit at large scale or the pixel level, and it's basically very similar to any brush editing we do in CS.

However, if you are getting regular, serious ghosts, you may want to try playing with the Helicon blend and smoothing settings. Also, try using one of the Lanczos blend methods instead of Bicubic -- they take longer but may help... (I generally use Lanczos 3 and blend of 4/1.)

Hening Bettermann · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2009, 05:57:12 pm »

Thank you for your reply! - Hening.

Author Topic: Focus stacking with automatic ghost removal, anywhere?? (Read 7183 times)