P65+ continuous drive rate

[antonyoung]

I have sitting in front of me a P40+ with a AFDIII with 1.5 firmware in it. Want me to try something let me know . I also have a P30+ and P45+ sitting here as well. The P40+ is flying over the other ones by a mile from my POV. I own the P30+ and I am really liking the speed of the P40+.

I like the speed of it too, just don't like the advertising. I didn't do one test when I was trying out the AFD3, that might be interesting especially in light of your posting that smaller files would be useful to you. When set to Sensor+ with the small raws, how many frames can you get with it locked down for 60 seconds? It's academic for me since I can't use the smaller files, but I'd be interested in knowing. Phase claims up to 1.8fps, which would be 108 in 60 seconds.

[Jack Flesher]

I don't have an AFD3 body because unless they can get the autofocus off of the shutter release it's of no use to me.

All you need to do is press the AF lock button after focus -- I know it is NOT what we grew to like with the AFD2's configurable rear button focus, but after about 20 minutes of using the AFD3 with AF lock, you do get used to it.

So I took delivery on a P40+ in a Mamiya mount that on the AFD2 is only as fast as the P30+ on the H mount.

Yep, the AFD2 is notably slower -- the main disadvantage and why I re-learned how to focus the AFD3 per above.

Coupled with the P30+'s noticeably better high ISO performance meant it makes no sense for me to keep the Mamiya mount P40+, so I swapped it for H, where at least I can get the faster capture rate. If Phamiya ever gets it together to get me an autofocus button in the back, then I'll think about getting one of their bodies and a P40+ in the Mamiya mount again. The tests with the Phase body were done with a dealer's gear.

I pinged on Phase very long and hard about the loss of this feature and they get it.  The problem is they cannot seem to convince Mamiya to get it, AND it does not seem to be a firmware-fixable issue in the AFD3 body...  So in the end it's their (Mamiya's) loss since they've lost another user to Hassy, while Phase only lost a P40+ sale.

Cheers,

[antonyoung]

All you need to do is press the AF lock button after focus -- I know it is NOT what we grew to like with the AFD2's configurable rear button focus, but after about 20 minutes of using the AFD3 with AF lock, you do get used to it.

Does the AF lock work like the AE lock on the AFD2 (i.e. press it once it's locked until pressed again)? If so that might be workable. I was under the impression that you have to hold the button in, which is a dealbreaker.

[Jack Flesher]

Does the AF lock work like the AE lock on the AFD2 (i.e. press it once it's locked until pressed again)? If so that might be workable. I was under the impression that you have to hold the button in, which is a dealbreaker.

Yes, if you set CF 19 to option 2, then it's press and lock, press again to unlock.  The default (CF 19-0) is press and hold though, so you need to change it.  (Note that the focus holds until pressed again even after you turn the camera off and back on, so you need to press it off to get shutter AF back -- and the AF lock light remains lit in the viewfinder to alert you of this.)  Note too that I have left the front button as the AF lock button (you can configure it to the rear as with the AFD2) as I now find it more convenient to work with this new arrangement that way.

[Guy Mancuso]

I like the speed of it too, just don't like the advertising. I didn't do one test when I was trying out the AFD3, that might be interesting especially in light of your posting that smaller files would be useful to you. When set to Sensor+ with the small raws, how many frames can you get with it locked down for 60 seconds? It's academic for me since I can't use the smaller files, but I'd be interested in knowing. Phase claims up to 1.8fps, which would be 108 in 60 seconds.

Actually pretty impressed by the Sensor + files . I have not tried locking it down but certainly will just put on continuous and time 1 minute and see how many I get shot. You can also shoot S mode with it and that is even smaller raw files. I will try it

You maybe interested in seeing this test http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8090

[antonyoung]

Yes, if you set CF 19 to option 2, then it's press and lock, press again to unlock.  The default (CF 19-0) is press and hold though, so you need to change it.  (Note that the focus holds until pressed again even after you turn the camera off and back on, so you need to press it off to get shutter AF back -- and the AF lock light remains lit in the viewfinder to alert you of this.)

Thank you Jack. I bought an AFD2 body from you I think about a year ago. Until then, everybody I had talked to at Mamiya, at Phase, and at Phase dealers assured me there was no way to decouple the focus from the shutter release, and usually even tried to convince me that it wasn't a big deal, that other customers weren't requesting it, and infuriatingly, that I was wrong to even want it to work that way. The body I got from you apparently didn't autofocus, and then on a hunch I pressed the AEL button and it autofocused. I nearly fainted, then spent about an hour with the instructions figuring out the combination of custom functions that allows the AEL button to focus. I'm convinced it's simply a logic error that it even works that way- it's a combination of two different slightly related custom functions and I don't think Mamiya had any idea what they were doing.

If it's possible to hit the button once on the new Phamiya body and have it lock focus, why didn't any of them tell me? I was told you had to hold the button in, which is obviously unworkable over more than a frame or two. I swear nobody at Phase, their dealers, or Mamiya even understands the problem or knows what their gear can or can't do.

[Jack Flesher]

If it's possible to hit the button once on the new Phamiya body and have it lock focus, why didn't any of them tell me? I was told you had to hold the button in, which is obviously unworkable over more than a frame or two. I swear nobody at Phase, their dealers, or Mamiya even understands the problem or knows what their gear can or can't do.

You are about the 10th user I've explained this option to, including a few of the executives at Phase!  I can only assume it comes down to not spending the time to RTFM, but in fairness, the first AFD3 body I got didn't even include a manual let alone a cheat sheet for the CF's!  It wasn't until I had owned the camera for a few weeks I was able to download an *ACCURATE* AFD3 PDF CF sheet from the PhaseOne site and figure it out.  Note that the AFD3 user manuals on the Mamiya site still do NOT have accurate CF explanations in them, and specifically they do not mention that there even is a CF 19-2!!!  It may be the later firmware and resulting CF's are different than original, or that the Mamiya and Phase bodies have different options, but I doubt it.   Anyway, here is the link to the PhaseOne CF sheet that is (mostly, but not totally) accurate: http://www.phaseone.com/upload/phase_one_c...m_functions.pdf.  

FWIW, when I got my AFD3 body I sold my AFD2 body locally and demo'd my complete CF set-up to the person who bought it.  I suspect if you got my AFD2 you got it from him -- but yes indeed, that is how I had it set up and how I used it!

[Guy Mancuso]

Might of got mine Anton. lol

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay back set at Sensor + in S format for one full minute on continuous shooting, I got 82 frames but I did hit a buffer about 4 times for like 2 seconds each. Maybe did not hit the first buffer until I got to about 42 shots.


Full Res files in S format never hit a buffer I got 61 frames off.

If I ever shoot that fast i will remind my client they are not paying me enough. LOL

[gwhitf]

Since Anton is in the rental business, his needs and wants are different from an End User. I understand his frustration. I'm sure his customers ask for crazy stuff, (like shooting sixty frames in a row, wide open on Continuous, with the mirror up?). I've been wondering for hours exactly how that could be used in the real world. But like he says, If they advertise it, it ought to perform that same way.

The thing for me is simply how it feels in my hands, in real use. I could care less about sixty frames in a row, but what I do care about is TWO frames in a row, if I was shooting people.

I remember owning the P30 and P45, and then one day, I got a P21+. The P21+ was a massive difference, mentally, for me. For the first time, I had a MF camera in my hands that actually FELT like a 35mm camera, in terms of responsiveness and recycle. When I'd shoot a frame with the P30 or P45, my reaction would be: "Shoot, OK, wait, wait, wait, wait, OK go". But when I shot the P21+, the internal reaction was: "Shoot, recycle, GO; shoot, recycle, GO". Almost immediate it seemed.

If they get a full frame back that feels like a P21+, response-wise, they'll have a real winner. Who knows, they might already have it. Of course, I'm talking about shooting people here, and following expressions. It comes down to the question: "Will I miss the expression I see (and want)". I rarely missed it with the P21+. I only sold it due to it being cropped-frame, and using it on a Contax 645, which had a very dark viewfinder. Small and dark equals Not Good. If you can't see it, you can't shoot it.

Edit add-on: The other weird thing, related to this thread, is how much the experience of a camera changes (and improves), once you find those silly little Custom Functions. On the H2, I have the User Button set for AutoFocus, and I have that top AE Button set to raise the mirror. Once I discovered these two little features, it was like getting a whole new camera handed to me. Those two functions completely transform the USE of the camera, day in and day out. I'm almost amazed that you can't export a set of Custom Functions, so that you could discover these hidden functions that are so helpful. Amazed you can't export them and trade them like baseball cards -- get the Mickey Mantle set, or the Richard Avedon set, or the Gregory Crewdson set.

[Guy Mancuso]

Have to admit that is the same difference i am feeling like the P21 since they both are .8 . It's like night and day and i do agree i really could care less how many in a row but knocking out 2 or 3 fast shooting people is very nice and making me think about the P40+ over my P30+.

[antonyoung]

Might of got mine Anton. lol

Yep, you're right. I got you guys confused. I have your old 300mm too.

[antonyoung]

Since Anton is in the rental business, his needs and wants are different from an End User. I understand his frustration. I'm sure his customers ask for crazy stuff, (like shooting sixty frames in a row, wide open on Continuous, with the mirror up?). I've been wondering for hours exactly how that could be used in the real world. But like he says, If they advertise it, it ought to perform that same way.

I was going to say I don't work with anybody who shoots sixty frames with the mirror up, but then I remembered this one guy who does. For slow shutter speeds with the H, he gets the focus then locks up the mirror and bangs away while directing the model... chtick, chtick, chtick, chtick, chtick, chtick... maybe I'll get a 555 and a V mount P40+ for him and stop being all disgruntled.

[Nick_T]

Edit add-on: The other weird thing, related to this thread, is how much the experience of a camera changes (and improves), once you find those silly little Custom Functions. On the H2, I have the User Button set for AutoFocus, and I have that top AE Button set to raise the mirror. Once I discovered these two little features, it was like getting a whole new camera handed to me. Those two functions completely transform the USE of the camera, day in and day out. I'm almost amazed that you can't export a set of Custom Functions, so that you could discover these hidden functions that are so helpful. Amazed you can't export them and trade them like baseball cards -- get the Mickey Mantle set, or the Richard Avedon set, or the Gregory Crewdson set.

Warning Thread drift:

George try Double clicking the mirror up button, landscape photogs love that one.

Nick-T

[Jack Flesher]

Yep, you're right. I got you guys confused.

We get that a lot.  

[Guy Mancuso]

Tall guy Jack. Short fat guy. Guy LOL