HP Z

[piko]

Aloha,
HELP!

This is becoming very expensive ,not to mention a total waste of my time!
I am trying to mount HP Brand Baryte paper, i have tried foam board and Masonite using Breathing Color as he glue medium. Every-time the print mounts perfectly and then within 3 minutes it gets massive (did I say MASSIVE) air bubbles. There is no way one can get the air bubbles out. Trying to lift the print to get to the bubbles is impossible as the paper instantly separates.
I have wasted 6 prints and have given up on this paper until i can find a solution to this problem. All of my tests were done on small X prints with no problems, it only appears on large print. By large i mean 24x40 etc.
I am curios as to whether anyone on this forum has had similar problems?
I will be trying a spray glue (maybe contact adhesive) as i am concerned that this paper is reacting with the water in Breathing Color Glamour 2. Any Thoughts on this?

Mahalo, Peter

[Geoff Wittig]

Aloha,
HELP!

This is becoming very expensive ,not to mention a total waste of my time!
I am trying to mount HP Brand Baryte paper, i have tried foam board and Masonite using Breathing Color as he glue medium. Every-time the print mounts perfectly and then within 3 minutes it gets massive (did I say MASSIVE) air bubbles. There is no way one can get the air bubbles out. Trying to lift the print to get to the bubbles is impossible as the paper instantly separates.
I have wasted 6 prints and have given up on this paper until i can find a solution to this problem. All of my tests were done on small X prints with no problems, it only appears on large print. By large i mean 24x40 etc.
I am curios as to whether anyone on this forum has had similar problems?
I will be trying a spray glue (maybe contact adhesive) as i am concerned that this paper is reacting with the water in Breathing Color Glamour 2. Any Thoughts on this?

Mahalo, Peter

I gave up on this paper in frustration, despite HP's sincere efforts to help. The surface texture, d-max and gamut were all very nice, but the paper itself seems just a bit too lightweight despite the quoted grammage. My problems were exclusively with larger prints. Large areas of dark or black ink would cockle or ripple badly under the inkload, leading to head strikes and zebra stripes. HP to their credit promptly produced a new Preset for the Z3100 which reduced the cockling enough to avoid head strikes, but I still got unpleasant ripples in dark areas that persisted even after prolonged drying times. Given the other nice paper choices out there, that killed my interest in it.

It appears that the paper base just can't handle the humectant (solvent) load from large prints. How long are you permitting your prints to dry before you try mounting them? If you're mounting them the same day they're printed, it's probably worth letting them dry for several days to see if this helps.

[neil snape]

I still have a part roll after I initially tested this paper. I only made a few 24" prints and only mounted one. It created it's own air space under the mount which I've tried pushing out. No luck.

It don't think it's a question of the weight but one of the solubility of the paper and it's water absorption from the coated surface on down. As soon as it has enough ink on it the paper starts to cockle and the resulting image quality and mechanical stability are going to create imperfect prints.

At least in sheets Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Baryta seems to behave well all around. I would have preferred to have a true premium Baryta from HP even if more expensive but one that is optimised for their printer. Some of the papers are, such as Hahnemuhle HP Smooth FA, Professional Satin, both being truly excellent papers.

[piko]

I gave up on this paper in frustration, despite HP's sincere efforts to help. The surface texture, d-max and gamut were all very nice, but the paper itself seems just a bit too lightweight despite the quoted grammage. My problems were exclusively with larger prints. Large areas of dark or black ink would cockle or ripple badly under the inkload, leading to head strikes and zebra stripes. HP to their credit promptly produced a new Preset for the Z3100 which reduced the cockling enough to avoid head strikes, but I still got unpleasant ripples in dark areas that persisted even after prolonged drying times. Given the other nice paper choices out there, that killed my interest in it.

It appears that the paper base just can't handle the humectant (solvent) load from large prints. How long are you permitting your prints to dry before you try mounting them? If you're mounting them the same day they're printed, it's probably worth letting them dry for several days to see if this helps.

We normally leave our Gallery fine art prints at least a week, we mount our event images within 1-2 days but they are not on this paper.
This morning we mounted (foam board) one of the troublesome HP Baryte prints using regular Elmer's Multipurpose spray adhesive and 3 hours later ..........no air pockets. Maybe this is the answer! Regular Elmers, top shelf at any  hardware store maybe our saveing grace.

[piko]

I still have a part roll after I initially tested this paper. I only made a few 24" prints and only mounted one. It created it's own air space under the mount which I've tried pushing out. No luck.

It don't think it's a question of the weight but one of the solubility of the paper and it's water absorption from the coated surface on down. As soon as it has enough ink on it the paper starts to cockle and the resulting image quality and mechanical stability are going to create imperfect prints.

At least in sheets Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Baryta seems to behave well all around. I would have preferred to have a true premium Baryta from HP even if more expensive but one that is optimised for their printer. Some of the papers are, such as Hahnemuhle HP Smooth FA, Professional Satin, both being truly excellent papers.

Aloha Neil,
I read most of your posts and technical information on your web site, guess i didn't see the one on the Baryta paper. It would have been great to have found negative feedback on this paper before i shelled out $140 for the roll plus $45 to ship Priority mail to Hawaii!
I may (hoping) have found the answer, I tried a test 24x36 using Elmer's spray adhesive. 3 hours later and no bubbles. My main problem is on Black and whites (main reason for purchasing this paper) Like you I am experiencing major problems with the black areas of the prints. What works for us is to spray the 2 day old print with 4 very light coats of Glamour 2. This stops the Black ink from smudging while handling or mounting the print.  Now for the big test.............I am going to attempt to mount this same troublesome B&W print using Elmer's onto Masonite. This print is predominantly jet Black turning to lighter shades of black and ending up as gray...........lots of problems.
[attachment=13915:Fallen_Angel_small.jpg]

[Ernst Dinkla]

Aloha Neil,
I read most of your posts and technical information on your web site, guess i didn't see the one on the Baryta paper. It would have been great to have found negative feedback on this paper before i shelled out $140 for the roll plus $45 to ship Priority mail to Hawaii!
I may (hoping) have found the answer, I tried a test 24x36 using Elmer's spray adhesive. 3 hours later and no bubbles. My main problem is on Black and whites (main reason for purchasing this paper) Like you I am experiencing major problems with the black areas of the prints. What works for us is to spray the 2 day old print with 4 very light coats of Glamour 2. This stops the Black ink from smudging while handling or mounting the print.  Now for the big test.............I am going to attempt to mount this same troublesome B&W print using Elmer's onto Masonite. This print is predominantly jet Black turning to lighter shades of black and ending up as gray...........lots of problems.
[attachment=13915:Fallen_Angel_small.jpg]

Testing the HP Baryta in B&W mode on the Z3200 I suspect it lays down too much ink. The third Black patch of the calibration target measures the highest Dmax: 2.24 D versus less than 2 on the 100% patch. I did put an extra layer of gloss enhancer on that calibration target to be on the save side for measuring but I get the impression that the media preset needs a lower ink limit. Planning to check the Z3100 media preset too. There are more differences between the Z3200 and Z3100 B&W mode output so either I have to change my B&W method used on the Z3100 or HP has something to change.

http://www.pigment-print.com/review/Z3200FirstPage.htm

Second page


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

[Colorwave]

Peter-
I first bought the HP Satin Barite and was reasonably pleased with it, except for the cockling problem that others have mentioned.  I find it ridiculous that HP can't get better results from one of their own papers.  The ink limiting is even set at 32, which is extremely low.  If you check the details, the preset for Baryta is the same as Fine Art Pearl (less ink).  I then tried the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, as per Neil and others recommendations and have had great results, with no complaints.  I suggest you try the Hahnemuhle version for your next order, as very few (aside from Ansel Adams Gallery!) seem to have good results with the HP paper.  The Hahnemuhle version has a more stable printed surface, lays flat, and has slightly better shadow detail.

PM or email me if you are ever in my neighborhood and would like to check some out.