Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: not permitted usage of images  (Read 4210 times)

rainer_v

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1194
    • http://www.tangential.de
not permitted usage of images
« on: May 21, 2009, 12:40:25 am »

what do you do if you find your images used by companies without permission? i just found several images on a webpage of a company, without that they asked or bought the rights and without writing my name under the images. are there lawyers in the US who handle such abuse or how you do it to get your money from this (ab)usage?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 12:45:59 am by rainer_v »
Logged
rainer viertlböck
architecture photograp

Kumar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 754
    • http://www.bskumarphotography.com
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 12:48:32 am »

FIRST, take screenshots of the offending pages. Print out the screenshots on paper, just in case. Are your images registered with the US Copyright Office or a similar office in Germany? It makes a difference. Write a polite letter to their Media/Communications person saying that you own the images in question, and ask to discuss this further. Also try to find out if the images have been used by them in other media. Talking to a lawyer right away might piss them off. Being friendly might gain you a client.

US based photographers may have more concrete advice.

HTH,
Kumar
Logged

MarkKay

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 587
    • http://markkayphotography.smugmug.com/gallery/1305161
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 01:18:49 am »


I found several web sites using my images for advertising.  It was a shot i took at the San Diego Wild animal park and the ads are for travel to Africa.  I have sent emails telling them to remove or pay for use of the image.. No responses.

Quote from: Kumar
FIRST, take screenshots of the offending pages. Print out the screenshots on paper, just in case. Are your images registered with the US Copyright Office or a similar office in Germany? It makes a difference. Write a polite letter to their Media/Communications person saying that you own the images in question, and ask to discuss this further. Also try to find out if the images have been used by them in other media. Talking to a lawyer right away might piss them off. Being friendly might gain you a client.

US based photographers may have more concrete advice.

HTH,
Kumar
Logged

Kumar

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 754
    • http://www.bskumarphotography.com
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 01:37:24 am »

Quote from: MarkKay
I found several web sites using my images for advertising.  It was a shot i took at the San Diego Wild animal park and the ads are for travel to Africa.  I have sent emails telling them to remove or pay for use of the image.. No responses.

Send a registered letter with an invoice. Send an email to the service provider with a copy of that letter, asking them to remove the images under the DMCA. That gets attention pretty quickly.

Kumar
Logged

rainer_v

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1194
    • http://www.tangential.de
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 02:06:20 am »

Quote from: Kumar
Send a registered letter with an invoice. Send an email to the service provider with a copy of that letter, asking them to remove the images under the DMCA. That gets attention pretty quickly.

Kumar
whats DMCA? how to find out their service provider?
Logged
rainer viertlböck
architecture photograp

bradleygibson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 828
    • http://GibsonPhotographic.com
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 02:48:41 am »

Quote from: rainer_v
whats DMCA?
DMCA (possibly of interest to you: "Service providers, however, are expected to remove material from users' web sites that appears to constitute copyright infringement.")

Quote from: rainer_v
how to find out their service provider?
http://www.whois.net/ (type in the offender's domain name)

-Brad
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 02:50:20 am by bradleygibson »
Logged
-Brad
 [url=http://GibsonPhotographic.com

amsp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 810
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 09:44:54 am »

How do you guys even find these offenders?
Logged

Doug Peterson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4210
    • http://www.doug-peterson.com
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 09:58:50 am »

Taking a screen grab yourself is useful. However, everyone on this forum knows how easy it would be to photoshop in your own image.

Try using a free service like webshotspro.com to supplement or replace a personally captured version of their website. (Be patient, you may wait a while in queue; but it's free!). This will create an archived neutral (3rd party) screen grab showing the infringement. Do this BEFORE contacting anyone since they are very likely to immediately pull the infringing image.

http://www.webshotspro.com/info/1AFD716D6F...F930EE8868D40C9

I'm with everyone else here that says try to be nice first; you may gain a client. However, if they are not responsive; do NOT tolerate it or look the other way.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

Conner999

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 932
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 10:45:04 am »

1. Do as many suggest and make sure you have an archived, unimpeachable copy of the offending usage/site BEFORE uttering anything to anyone - unless you simply want usage to stop and no $$. But will happen again. Too many folks think on internet means 'free' and others imply know how to work the system.

2. Go the polite,  "you made an inadvertent boo-boo" no-accusatory way first, showing evidence and while you understand they made an 'innocent'  (no need to get anyone's back up)  mistake using the images, make it apparent they are chatting with a polite but firm and well informed pro who knows how to resolve the situation reasonably. In short, avoid the  "give me $$ for my pictures you thieving idiots/scum or I'll sue..." approach.

2a. If they simply apologize, remove images and go quiet on $$ or simply suggest attribution vs $$$, think long and hard and unemotionally about any next steps.

3. Don't mention or even hint at lawyers unless you REALLY know what you're walking into.  The time-honored tactic for someone being sued or who thinks they are going to be sued is to erase evidence and simply go silent until such time as they actually have no choice but respond (e.g. receive a summons, etc., - if they ever get one). No responding emails, no layers letters back, nada. You send your spendy letters letters/emails into a black hole.

The idea is for you to spend lots and lots of legal $$$$ before the process even gets started. You whittle away $$ and get a VERY real sense of dread with every $1000 3- paragraph letter your lawyer gleefully pens of what the process is going to involve in $$ and time just to get to court, let alone thru court - if it even gets there. The only thing achieved is that your lawyer makes insane money for the effort involved, you lose time, money and resolve and they don't even break a sweat.

The sad reality of the system is that suing is a matter of looking at the cold hard math. Principal is all well and good in theory (like Socialism), but what is this going to cost me vs. what I will get back - or avoid losing (in usage fees). Does the logic for moving fwd top add up? As a simplistic example, spending $10,000 to get $10,000 back may give you a sense of satisfaction, but who is the actual winner in the end?
Logged

ddk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 274
    • http://www.pbase.com/ddk
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2009, 11:41:11 am »

Quote from: rainer_v
what do you do if you find your images used by companies without permission? i just found several images on a webpage of a company, without that they asked or bought the rights and without writing my name under the images. are there lawyers in the US who handle such abuse or how you do it to get your money from this (ab)usage?


Reality is that there's not much you can do without being financially compromised. I have this issue even with some patents, the commercial reality is that for the most part its too expensive to sue in respect to what can be recovered. Often I found out that a couple of letters from my lawyer would do the trick and other times I was ignored. There are lots of issues outside of the law when it comes to the internet, there's even jurisdiction problems here in the US when you're trying to sue a company in another state and you might as well forget about it if its international. My recommendation for the hopeless cases is to write them a firm but nice letter/email and ask them to give you credit on their site, they might do it if its convenient for them and you'll end with some advertising at least. Otherwise, as frustrating as it is there's not much else worth doing.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 11:43:02 am by ddk »
Logged
david
-----------------------
www.pbase.com/ddk

Harold Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 03:36:47 pm »

Quote from: rainer_v
what do you do if you find your images used by companies without permission? i just found several images on a webpage of a company, without that they asked or bought the rights and without writing my name under the images. are there lawyers in the US who handle such abuse or how you do it to get your money from this (ab)usage?

I had a similar experience, but it was print so the evidence was straightforward, and the offender was local to my area. An observant architect I had worked for mentioned that he had seen one of my photos used in an Ad for a window and door manufacturer. They had scanned the photo directly from a calendar ( which had included my credit and copyright notice prominently displayed ).

I contacted the company owner and explained politely that I made my living from photography, he had used a photo without permission and I would be invoicing him for usage. He laughed it off as a joke, so I filed a claim in small claims court. He ignored this so I won the claim by default.

My next step was to file for an order for him to appear before the judge to arrange payment. Before I did this I sent him a notice to that effect, and explained that he would have to disclose his business dealings to the court, including who owed him money, bank balances etc, and that his creditors could be garnisheed for the amount owing. I also pointed out that if he ignored the notice to appear, he would be found in contempt of court and would be spending the next 40 days in jail. he immediately paid the invoice as well as court costs. I doubt he will use photos without permission again.

Logged

ziocan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 426
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 11:04:07 pm »

Quote from: Nick Walker
As someone pointed out take screen shots as evidence. Unless they are a regular client that you do not want to offend, do not inform them that they are displaying the images as they will destroy the evidence, send paperwork - regular clients normally settle once the misdemeanour has been pointed out to them. Web images are charged by the month, whether on the home page, secondary, or home and secondary pages, also the image size. If there is advertising on their site make a surreptitious enquiry to see how much they would screw you to advertise on their site - this can often be very revealing, especially those that end up pleading poverty once billed without the knowledge of your rate enquiry.

Submit an invoice and add 50 - 100% if there is no credit. I have pursued 7 companies, 5 substantial corporations around the globe, in the USA, Norway, France and the UK. I been paid several thousand pounds for the misuse (theft) of my images - in the UK copyright is covered by Theft Act 1978 (intangible goods) - for ease of use the Copyright Designs and Patents Act 1988 is used.

To see pricing for the web as a 'general starting guide' visit Getty images, Corbis or Alamy and use their rolling calculators to price for the web - you have to consider the success of the company in relation to the fee charged as most of the prices set on these calculators are for the top end players.

I have not had to involve any lawyers - only sent copies of the offending web pages, a letter, and invoice. For straight forward cases Lawyers are highly overpaid for doing very little and should only be used as a last resort if the situation is complex, where they will earn their crust - I studied criminal law for several years in a previous profession. I accept that in the US you may need  a lawyer approach.

Companies use our pictures to help boost their bank accounts and must pay accordingly.
I used a very similar approach with some of my clients, though I had one of my agent doing the work, and after very little back and forth, there were apologies from their parts and they paid the due in full.

for pricing for usage of our images, there is this 130$ software (fotoQuote pro 6), that has nearly every kind of pricing you need, it is updated quite often on order to follow real market prices. it paid itself in spade after the first few estimates, since it helped me to price correctly and actually i was able to get few extra thousands on a few invoices, compared to what I previously asked.
a few hundreds here, a thousand there..... at the end it makes some difference.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 11:05:51 pm by ziocan »
Logged

revaaron

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 333
not permitted usage of images
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 02:55:45 pm »

oops.. wrong thread.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 03:11:28 pm by revaaron »
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up