Color checker SG WORKFLOW for paintings reproduction

[archivue]

What are the differents workflows  for paintings reproduction using a colorchecker SG ?

Shall we use profile maker or is there something incorporate in the raw devellopers ?

[tho_mas]

What are the differents workflows  for paintings reproduction using a colorchecker SG ?
Shall we use profile maker or is there something incorporate in the raw devellopers ?

I have no experience with redproduction of paintings. But maybe you'll take a look at "BasICColor Input".
Upside here is that every colour patch is printed repeatedly on the target so that 100% evenness of the lighting is not that much a problem.
Too, the Dcam target avoids problems with metameric failures.
http://basiccolor.de/english/Datenblaetter...t_E/input_E.htm
http://basiccolor.de/english/index_E.htm

just a hint...

[edwinb]

What are the differents workflows  for paintings reproduction using a colorchecker SG ?

Shall we use profile maker or is there something incorporate in the raw devellopers ?

I found using a sinar P2 camera system one of the best quality points for reproduction is to make a scene reference (with stabilised lighting and after framing and focussing) before colour calibration /  profiling consideration.
I assume similar functionality is within the leaf system your using.
edwin

[ericstaud]

What are the differents workflows  for paintings reproduction using a colorchecker SG ?

Shall we use profile maker or is there something incorporate in the raw devellopers ?

You would use Profile Maker or i1 match for an SG chart.

There are also camera profiling programs available from ColorEyes and from BasICColor.  Each of these companies requires the use of their proprietary color chart.

You would process the image of the SG chart used for profiling in the same RAW developer you would use for processing images.  I would not use the same ICC profile for two different programs like Capture One and RAW Developer.

[eronald]

What are the differents workflows  for paintings reproduction using a colorchecker SG ?

Shall we use profile maker or is there something incorporate in the raw devellopers ?

Profiles need to be made with a conversion by the software they are intended for.

Wth C1:
Image the chart. Select the linear curve, convert, save to Tiff. Feed to your profiling software. Save profile and apply.
Don't be surprised if results are poor.

With LR/CS4
Use the regular Colorchecker to make the profile with the free software from Adobe. Results should be worth just about what they cost.


In my experience, a profile is usually about as good as the person who makes the profile. Just as an image is usually about as good as the person who takes the shot.
Of course, vendors tell photographers that buying the software makes them instant experts, just as they tell camera buyers that a dSLR turns them into an instant fashion photographer
I once wrote my own camera profiling software, for fun. Took me less time than I thought, in Matlab. Results were quite good

Edmund

[tho_mas]

Wth C1:
Image the chart. Select the linear curve, convert, save to Tiff. Feed to your profiling software. Save profile and apply.
Don't be surprised if results are poor.

and first set input profile (camera profile) "no colour correction" (or "colour view" or, additionally since C1 V4.7 or 4.8 "achromatic + neutral").
why poor?

[eronald]

why poor?

Until you hit the right combo of operator expertise, and software adequation to the camera and type of profile you need, results are usually hit and miss. The SG chart isn't exactly the best designed object in the world, either.  

I own every single profiling package on the market, and have been attending ICC meetings re. this topic for a year, and that's my point of view. Your mileage may vary.

Edmund

[mmurph]

In the past I found calibration necessary to get accurate reds out of my Canon cameras.  Blue's and green's were closer to acceptable straight out of the camera.

This was pretty obvious in something like an image of a red plaid dress for fashion. More orange-ish than red on my Canon 1DsII without calibration.  It used to be worse on the earlier Canon's, like the D30 (3mp camera, not the 30D.)

I have the i1 with the ColorCheckerSG.  Going to buy a Canon 5DII and C1 Pro soon, so I will try to get a good calibration there. Unfortunately the i1 Match profile editing windows are far too small to be useful for actually tweaking the profile. But I am not up to spending $13,000 on the higher end Xrite profiling software.

In the past I had some success with one of the automated actions/routines to set color parameters, I think it was in CS2? Not an ICC, but calculated settings for ACR using a MacBeth I think?  Certainly better than I got out of the camera without calibration of any sort.

The book "Skin" (about Photoshop, not porn)      outlines ICC, automated, and manual approaches to calibratuin.  A little dated, but the general theory holds.

Michael has had articles here on calibration in the past, don't remember any specifically though.

[yaya]

What are the differents workflows  for paintings reproduction using a colorchecker SG ?

Shall we use profile maker or is there something incorporate in the raw devellopers ?

We have a custom version of Profile Maker/ Editor 5.0 incorporated into LC11 that requires a dongle and a use of the SG chart. This streamlines the profile creation/ editing a bit:

Make a profile:

1. Shoot the SG chart
2. Press the "Create Profile" button in the Adjust Color tab; This will launch PM 5 with a preview of the SG image
3. Create the profile as normally in PM 5.0, then save it
4. Back in LC11, it'll tell you that a new Input profile has been created and will apply it to your SG image.

Using the same flow you can use the "Edit Profile" button to tweak an existing image (doesn't have to be of an SG chart) and save a new profile.

Like Edmund suggests ICC is a complicated area and the qualities of the different solutions may vary...

Yair

[archivue]

We have a custom version of Profile Maker/ Editor 5.0 incorporated into LC11 that requires a dongle and a use of the SG chart. This streamlines the profile creation/ editing a bit:

And how much does this dongle cost ? reference ? thanks Yair !

[archivue]

From the leaf PDF... it looks great...
Creating a profile
● This feature is available in the Leaf Custom Color Profiling module,
which must be purchased separately. For more information, see your
Leaf dealer.
● Custom color profiling is currently only supported on Mac®.
1. Shoot a GretagMacbeth® SG (10x14 patches) target with the Aptus
22 Product (standard) camera setting and the photographic lighting
that will be used.
2. On the Gray Balance tab select the Image Gray Balance Picker.
3. Click a middle gray patch anywhere in the target, for example I5.
4. Ensure that the exposure is correct and uniform:
a. To test the exposure, place the pointer on a white patch on the
image, and in the Pixel Info box, check that the system value is
between 210 and 250.
b. To verify the uniformity, place the pointer on each remaining
white patch and verify that each system value does not vary
more than 5 points from the system value in the previous step.
If either of the above conditions are not satisfied, make the
required adjustments and shoot the target again.
5. Check that the patches in your image are straight and that the target
is positioned parallel to the camera back using the grid. If the
patches are not straight, or the lines are not parallel, straighten the
test chart and take the shot again.
6. Clear the Color Management checkbox.
7. Click Create Profile.
The ProfileMaker software opens with the image of the target.
8. Use ProfileMaker to create a color profile. For assistance, refer to
the ProfileMaker help system. The profile that you create must be
saved in one of the ColorSync Utility profile folders. We recommend
that you save it in the Library > Colorsync > Profiles folder in your
own user folder.
9. Select the Color Management checkbox.
10.In the Color Look list, select the new ICC profile.
Note: It may take a few moments for the new profile to appear in the
Color Look list.

[Colorwave]

Am I correct in assuming that there is no automated process for doing what Leaf offers within Capture One?

[mmurph]

And how much does this dongle cost ? reference ? thanks Yair !

$2,195 for the full Profilemaker 5.0 Photostudio software package at Colormall.com  (no spectro/hardware included - add $550 or so for an i1 Pro. ColorChecker SG is $279 or so, but in some packages. Can't find a good site with clear layout of options/packages):

***********************************************

https://www.colormall.com/PM5-Photostudio-P...II7IKBkqfYkpzwn

Build, edit and fine tune color profiles faster and easier with ProfileMaker5.

New features and enhancements deliver even more expert control. Choose the ProfileMaker 5 Photostudio package to profile all of the devices used in a typical studio photography workflow. It ensures that you will capture a broad gamut of colors so you'll need less retouching. You'll save time and money, while enhancing output quality.

Featuring modules to manage all of your color imaging devices and processes

Digital Camera – create ICC profiles for digital cameras

Monitor – capture color information and create ICC profiles for CRT and LCD displays

Output – create ICC profiles for RGB, CMYK, Hexachrome® and CMYK + Red/Green output devices

Editor – edits profiles or fine tunes the ones you’ve created working with lightness, contrast, saturation, white point or gradation curves.

ColorPicker – converts spot colors (CxF or Pantone) to process color

MeasureTool – for data collection from color measurement devices and accurate profile computation

[BobDavid]

I use the SG chart with the X-Rite package for camera profiles. There probably are better solutions; but I don't think paying more for minimal improvement is worth it. The main thing to remember about a camera profile is that it's only applicable to highly controlled situations. I use the same lights, modifiers, and polarizing gels for repro work that I used for making the initial camera profile.

[archivue]

The main thing to remember about a camera profile is that it's only applicable to highly controlled situations. I use the same lights, modifiers, and polarizing gels for repro work that I used for making the initial camera profile.

even just by changing the flash power settingsn you can modified the color T° !

[mmurph]

even just by changing the flash power settingsn you can modified the color T° !

The profiles themselves are a little more robust.  They will pull in the camera values/interpretation fairly well across a set of similar lighting situations - one ICC profile for most of your studio strobe lighting, etc.

They are trying to compensate for mostly-constant "errors" or variances in how the camera sees things.

Even the most basic profile can help quite a bit with the larger "oddities."

[yaya]

And how much does this dongle cost ? reference ? thanks Yair !

The complete pack including dongle and SG chart is listed at €1,395 (part number 518-01296A). The installer is already included in LC11 and comes under "custom install".

The standard package can be bought cheaper but it won't provide automated flow.

Yair

[BobDavid]

even just by changing the flash power settingsn you can modified the color T° !

Using high-end strobes is important. Elinchrom Digital RX and Broncolor are very consistent throughout their output ranges. I wouldn't try changing output power on Alien Bees for color consistency.

[archivue]

Using high-end strobes is important. Elinchrom Digital RX and Broncolor are very consistent throughout their output ranges. I wouldn't try changing output power on Alien Bees for color consistency.

i will use Profoto D1 1000...

[archivue]

The complete pack including dongle and SG chart is listed at €1,395 (part number 518-01296A). The installer is already included in LC11 and comes under "custom install".

The standard package can be bought cheaper but it won't provide automated flow.

Yair

Yes, much cheaper and can be used with all the camera... it costs the double... automatic, but leaf only.
Are the profiles made with this two solutions exactly the same ?



ProfileMaker 5 Dongle / Box
Product Code: MACB210
Inc VAT (15%)   
€230.00

ProfileMaker 5 Digital Camera
Product Code: MACB203
Inc VAT (15%)   
€408.83

The ProfileMaker 5 Dongle is a blank security dongle/USB key which enables the use of separate ProfileMaker 5 modules with third-party measuring instruments (e.g. the i1 range). The ProfileMaker 5 Dongle offers an alternative to purchasing a full ProfileMaker package should you only require certain functions, with the modular system giving you the option to upgrade later. Suitable for PC and Macintosh use.

The ProfileMaker 5 Digital Camera Module offers a professional level solution for digital photographers looking to create and customise ICC profiles for digital cameras. The Digital Camera Module features enhanced colour profiling technology, enabling users to achieve smoother colour transitions, optimisation of skin tones and high and low key images – resulting in a profile that produces high quality results comparable to analogue transparencies. These enhanced colour control options make the ProfileMaker 5 Digital Camera Module an ideal solution for high end studio applications such as fashion, retail, catalogue and packaging photography.

If you do not already own a ProfileMaker Dongle, you will need to purchase this – see related products for details. Requires a supported camera target such as a ColorChecker, ColorChecker Mini or ColorChecker SG.