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Author Topic: Brumbaers's tool still the best choice!!  (Read 6752 times)

favalim

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Brumbaers's tool still the best choice!!
« on: May 17, 2009, 02:29:08 pm »

It's hard to imagine that all the Sinar's engineers are not able to find a solution to clean files from color cast as a freeware software like Brumbaer's tools is!
Today I shot untethered (I rarely do that) with a view camera and e75 LV; I downloaded then the files from the internal back memory with Exposure wich converts the file at the same time, well ... all the magenta and green cast in the sky are still there. Just tried to download and convert the files with Brumbaers and the files are perfect! Incredible!!
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JerryReed

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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2009, 03:02:11 pm »

Quote from: favalim
It's hard to imagine that all the Sinar's engineers are not able to find a solution to clean files from color cast as a freeware software like Brumbaer's tools is!
Today I shot untethered (I rarely do that) with a view camera and e75 LV; I downloaded then the files from the internal back memory with Exposure wich converts the file at the same time, well ... all the magenta and green cast in the sky are still there. Just tried to download and convert the files with Brumbaers and the files are perfect! Incredible!!

The eMotion 75 LV back has menu settings for "CLOUDY" "Sunny" etc, all of which are way off the mark with too little magenta and way out in green.  I have the same back, and this experience was at first very hard to accept.  I was also surprised to see how great the correction was to get the color temp back to anything close to 5000 Kelvin.  

Using the MENU on the 75 LV back you can shoot a scene containing a GT card and that will enable you to get images thereafter that are much closer to being color balanced.

Jerry Reed


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rainer_v

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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 03:57:23 pm »

you have to make with both programs a white shot before the final shot, if you want to have colorcast free results.
all backs behave similar in this respect , and brumbaer cant do the cats away too,  if you dont apply a whitefile as reference to it.
but if you apply a white file exposure works very good and neutral too, even a tick cleaner in the shadows.
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rainer viertlböck
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edwinb

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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 04:46:24 pm »

Quote from: rainer_v
you have to make with both programs a white shot before the final shot, if you want to have colorcast free results.
all backs behave similar in this respect , and brumbaer cant do the cats away too,  if you dont apply a whitefile as reference to it.
but if you apply a white file exposure works very good and neutral too, even a tick cleaner in the shadows.

when you say both programs do you mean sinar caputurshop and exposure softwares?
I have found the color alchemist in captureshop to be very good to clear small cast green-magenta in the highlight areas.
I havent found the same tools in exposure yet but the dng format does open it up to other applications.
however making a lens reference first is the ultimate in both softwares i think.
edwin
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bdp

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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2009, 05:53:33 pm »

Quote from: favalim
It's hard to imagine that all the Sinar's engineers are not able to find a solution to clean files from color cast as a freeware software like Brumbaer's tools is!
Today I shot untethered (I rarely do that) with a view camera and e75 LV; I downloaded then the files from the internal back memory with Exposure wich converts the file at the same time, well ... all the magenta and green cast in the sky are still there. Just tried to download and convert the files with Brumbaers and the files are perfect! Incredible!!

It sounds like you don't know what you are doing. eXposure's Shading Mode is just as effective at removing colour casts as the Brumbaer tool. I recommend you read the help file and learn how to use your software before complaining out loud in public.

Ben
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favalim

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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 06:22:54 pm »

Quote from: bdp
It sounds like you don't know what you are doing. eXposure's Shading Mode is just as effective at removing colour casts as the Brumbaer tool. I recommend you read the help file and learn how to use your software before complaining out loud in public.

Ben

It sounds that I believe what I see: downloading/converting from Exposure the sky shows magenta cast stripes that doesn't appear with Brumbaer's tool.
I'm not talking about shading calibration etc. that I use every day in studio; I'm talking about unthetered shots with lens shift and no white balance ref pictures: JUST SHOT AND CONVERTED!!
Trust me!
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ThierryH

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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 06:35:53 pm »

in this case you have set a "default" shading in Brumbaer which corrects the cast, which is not the case in eXposure. Make a "normal" shading reference and use it as your sensor reference by default, then it will be the same, as mentioned by Rainer.

As mentioned by bdp and Rainer, eXposure gives the same shaded results as Brumbaer, if used the correct way.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: favalim
It sounds that I believe what I see: downloading/converting from Exposure the sky shows magenta cast stripes that doesn't appear with Brumbaer's tool.
I'm not talking about shading calibration etc. that I use every day in studio; I'm talking about unthetered shots with lens shift and no white balance ref pictures: JUST SHOT AND CONVERTED!!
Trust me!
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bdp

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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2009, 06:36:54 pm »

Ok, sorry to sound harsh. "Stripes" you say... that's weird. I thought you were talking about magenta and green casts in the corners. Can you post examples?

Ben
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favalim

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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2009, 06:53:13 pm »

Quote from: ThierryH
in this case you have set a "default" shading in Brumbaer which corrects the cast, which is not the case in eXposure. Make a "normal" shading reference and use it as your sensor reference by default, then it will be the same, as mentioned by Rainer.

As mentioned by bdp and Rainer, eXposure gives the same shaded results as Brumbaer, if used the correct way.

Best regards,
Thierry


Thanks Thierry, I didn't make attention about the default shading that Brumbaer applies; now all it's clear, thank you!

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favalim

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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2009, 06:55:17 pm »

Quote from: bdp
Ok, sorry to sound harsh. "Stripes" you say... that's weird. I thought you were talking about magenta and green casts in the corners. Can you post examples?

Ben

Ops! not stripes really .. it's more a vertical area than a stripe; anyway Thierry has explained the reason; thanks anyway.

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paratom

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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2009, 03:58:30 am »

Quote from: ThierryH
in this case you have set a "default" shading in Brumbaer which corrects the cast, which is not the case in eXposure. Make a "normal" shading reference and use it as your sensor reference by default, then it will be the same, as mentioned by Rainer.

As mentioned by bdp and Rainer, eXposure gives the same shaded results as Brumbaer, if used the correct way.

Best regards,
Thierry

Would you recommend to do this for each (wide) lens? (I mean even for non-shift lenses)
I thought the reference file one gets with the back should "standardize" the results of the back itself?
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ThierryH

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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2009, 04:25:09 am »

Yes, I would, with ANY lens: create one single shading with e.g. a normal focal lenght at f8/f11 and use this as Reference File.
You will see much better results.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: paratom
Would you recommend to do this for each (wide) lens? (I mean even for non-shift lenses)
I thought the reference file one gets with the back should "standardize" the results of the back itself?
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paratom

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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2009, 04:49:16 am »

Quote from: ThierryH
Yes, I would, with ANY lens: create one single shading with e.g. a normal focal lenght at f8/f11 and use this as Reference File.
You will see much better results.

Best regards,
Thierry

thank you ofr the info
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Carl Glover

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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2009, 06:29:33 am »

I prefer the simplicity of the Brumbaer tools but I'd rather have the firmware saving files as DNGs like M8's do?

I know that this can be done with the new Sinar backs but I'd like to see this with the eMotion backs too, it would simplify the work flow considerably.

ThierryH

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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2009, 06:52:14 am »

Dear Carl,

eXposure is not different as the Brumbaer tool: both applications download the RAWs (the ".IA" = Image Archive & the ".BR" = Black Reference) from the internal memory (or CF card) and convert them into DNGs while they are saved. Nothing different here and both do a conversion while importing.

As for having directly DNGs IN the internal memory (or CF card): this can be done with the latest Sinarback eSprit 65.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Carl Glover
I prefer the simplicity of the Brumbaer tools but I'd rather have the firmware saving files as DNGs like M8's do?

I know that this can be done with the new Sinar backs but I'd like to see this with the eMotion backs too, it would simplify the work flow considerably.
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Carl Glover

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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2009, 07:49:21 am »

Thierry,

I want DNGs straight out of the back.

I do not want an esprit back. It doesn't work with shift lenses.

My e75LV is wonderful but I wish it could save the files differently.

Simpler solutions tend to be more elegant - hence my preference for Brumbaer.
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