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Author Topic: Tumbleweed  (Read 4658 times)

roskav

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Tumbleweed
« on: May 14, 2009, 10:07:13 am »

I know this is not strictly the right forum but since all of the architecture photographers visit this set of discussions I thought it would be the best place to post.
I haven't photographed anything in 2 weeks.  It's like someone turned a tap off.  I have of course staff outgoings, equipment and studio leases, not to mention a bit of a wage for me.. all of which are under extreme pressure.  The building industry in Ireland has gone from 100 miles an hour to zero in about 6 months.... Please tell me that you guys in sunnier climes are doing better.
I'm trying to open up some new revenue streams such as print sales (am I nuts?).  I know some people headed off to Dubai for work, but I hear that's not as busy as it was.  It's a bit embarrassing posting this but there has been relatively little discussion about the recession on this forum except in terms of manufacturers.  I thought I would bring it up as I think that you guys have valuable insights into how the business works etc and I would love to hear your experiences or opinions!

R



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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 10:10:25 am »

FWIW, the advertising photogarphy market here seems to be 5% of what it was same time last year. Some of the biggest ad agencies have nothing to do but pitch for new clients at the moment. It's a graveyard and not much fun at all!
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Dustbak

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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 10:20:29 am »

It has definitely gotten more quiet this year. Fortunately I am not in the architecture photography business however several friends of mine are architects or work in construction/building management. All of them are looking at a steep drop in activity. I am a member of a municipal building committee. The number of building permit applications have dropped significantly over the last 6 months and it is not yet picking up.

I will have a drop of income compared to last year but fortunately less substantial than I feared, also taking into consideration that last year was great. I notice some of my clients are severely hit while others are doing pretty ok sofar.

Everybody is kind of sitting tight squeezing their buns together and praying it will pass without causing too much pain  
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 10:43:16 am by Dustbak »
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Martin Kristiansen

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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 10:27:53 am »

In South Africa it is for sure quieter. Above the line advertising is a fraction of what it was. What is doing very well is catalog work. I have always done a lot of catalog work but I have been swamped this year. Corporate gifts, light fittings, office furniture, luggage, shoes, clothing and so on. I have people calling and saying that times are really tough so they want to do a catalog.

Its a bit boring at times but it sure beats the excitement of going bust.
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Dick Roadnight

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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 11:04:04 am »

Quote from: Roskav
...architecture photographers ... studio leases, ... print sales (am I nuts?).  
R
My father used to say "buy when things are cheap, sell when they are expensive".

So now might be a good time to buy kit - (if the pound/Euro was in our favor).

House prices are increasing, so, hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I think there is a good market (in the USA) for pictures of Irish Landscapes, Harbours, villages, traditions, crafts, costumes etc.

With internet Agency selling, you do not have money tied up in unsold prints.

There are tens of thousands of people trying to sell prints, so it is probably a waste of time if you do not have a very good camera and printer (there are people here who will tell you that they have sold 4 Mpx pictures)... if you have what it takes for contemporary architecture, you can do medieval (proper) architecture?

What camera/printer do you have?

Medium term, if you take pictures this year you can market them over the next few years when, hopefully, you will not have the time for freelancing.

Have you thought about running holidays for photographers?

Where are you in Ireland?

Get some money out of your local amateurs by organizing Studio days.

How is the tourist industry in Ireland?
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Harold Clark

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 11:24:00 am »

Quote from: Roskav
I know this is not strictly the right forum but since all of the architecture photographers visit this set of discussions I thought it would be the best place to post.
I haven't photographed anything in 2 weeks.  It's like someone turned a tap off.  I have of course staff outgoings, equipment and studio leases, not to mention a bit of a wage for me.. all of which are under extreme pressure.  The building industry in Ireland has gone from 100 miles an hour to zero in about 6 months.... Please tell me that you guys in sunnier climes are doing better.
I'm trying to open up some new revenue streams such as print sales (am I nuts?).  I know some people headed off to Dubai for work, but I hear that's not as busy as it was.  It's a bit embarrassing posting this but there has been relatively little discussion about the recession on this forum except in terms of manufacturers.  I thought I would bring it up as I think that you guys have valuable insights into how the business works etc and I would love to hear your experiences or opinions!

R

I am located in the Toronto region. Things took a dive last November and it was slow early this year. There are recently some signs of life, May is shaping up to be a pretty good month. I do a cross section of work-architectural, industrial, corporate & aerial.

Of course we are all competing with Suzy the receptionist who got a camera for her birthday. ( I have an electric drill and pliers too, maybe I can take a shot at dentistry ). The trick is to reduce overhead where you can and wait it out, recessions don't last forever. The other alternative is to have been a teacher or civil servant, I would be a retired millionaire by now. A few decades too late for that, and for me photography has been much more fulfilling I am sure.
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geesbert

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 03:39:18 pm »

I am doing food and people, I am busy as never before in my life. I am acquiring a new client every other week at the moment, good clients, big names. I am turning down jobs, because I don't want to hire more people, as I am expecting a slouch anytime. Advertising space is cheap as never before, and as the ratio between production cost and media buy is so steep in the food market, we are producing a lot at the moment. I am fully booked til beginning of August, I have no idea why, as most people around me work much less than before, my rental place says they are down to 40%.

strange times....
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Rob C

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 03:57:29 pm »

Ros, I started in the business (industrial photo unit) in ´60 and went solo in fashion and advertising in ´66. I can only say that from the mid-seventies on, everybody (that I know) honest enough to pass a true opinion has confessed they felt the profession is on the skids. Can you remember how long ago it was when all the London people that were below the top ten or so decided to offload their space and rent? That, frankly, tells its own true story of the rot starting from the very top of the trade, with a trickle-down that led to the disappearance of most of the job ads in the BJP as well as most of the in-house photo units such as the one in which I was fortunate enough to receive my basic training.

All you see now is acceleration of a bad situation.

The wedding industry always suffered from Harold´s "Suzie or her uncle with the camera" to the extent that with digital, many people I know who used to depend on it have simply left it altogether and now seek solace elsewhere. Some drift into stock and some can make it pay - God alone knows how.

I do not think there will be a total wipe-out, but I do believe there will be a much smaller number of practitioners left when the economy eventually recovers, as I think it simply has to, if only to comply with that natural law which states that the only certainty is change. Of course, you could say that means it might just get worse, but I don´t think so.

Rob C
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 04:21:57 pm by Rob C »
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Snook

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 04:41:01 pm »

Quote from: Roskav
I know this is not strictly the right forum but since all of the architecture photographers visit this set of discussions I thought it would be the best place to post.
I haven't photographed anything in 2 weeks.  It's like someone turned a tap off.  I have of course staff outgoings, equipment and studio leases, not to mention a bit of a wage for me.. all of which are under extreme pressure.  The building industry in Ireland has gone from 100 miles an hour to zero in about 6 months.... Please tell me that you guys in sunnier climes are doing better.
I'm trying to open up some new revenue streams such as print sales (am I nuts?).  I know some people headed off to Dubai for work, but I hear that's not as busy as it was.  It's a bit embarrassing posting this but there has been relatively little discussion about the recession on this forum except in terms of manufacturers.  I thought I would bring it up as I think that you guys have valuable insights into how the business works etc and I would love to hear your experiences or opinions!

R

Well I talked about the crisis WAY before it hit full force and most of the Smart Ass photographers in here jumped all over me like I was crazy...
Liitle did they think that marketing is the first thing to get cut in a crisis. Marketing 101.
Most jumped in saying , Never been busier, got tons of work etc...
I posted here in LL and they threw the Discussion over into the Coffee table conversation.

Look who's laughing now!!

Actually I have been crazy busy lately and the crisis forced me to open new doors that have turned out pretty good. Real estate and architecture guys I think are the hardest hit at the moment as where I live also construction has come to a stand still.
There are even HUGE commercial buildings where I read the Developers are better off not building and losing then continuing to build and lose more. Either way they are losing Big time!.
Where I live they say the crisis won't be as bad as aspected but some say it will be bad in the next couple of months. Who knows????
November and December were my worst 2 months in 25 years as just the talk of crisis caused a crisis.
I started downsizing all my staff and expenses since September last year and so I prepared myself pretty well.
I think it is a 50/50 chance of going either way and a samll chance that the WHOLE world econommy will crash and we'll all be screwed.
10212012 is a date for me. If we get past that then maybe there is a future...?
The Mayans think differently and I tend to beleive in them. I guess we will since in the next 3 years...:+}
Good luck and sorry to hear you have run into bad times.
Snook
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marc gerritsen

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 06:58:24 pm »

Quote from: Roskav
I know this is not strictly the right forum but since all of the architecture photographers visit this set of discussions I thought it would be the best place to post.
I haven't photographed anything in 2 weeks.  It's like someone turned a tap off.  I have of course staff outgoings, equipment and studio leases, not to mention a bit of a wage for me.. all of which are under extreme pressure.  The building industry in Ireland has gone from 100 miles an hour to zero in about 6 months.... Please tell me that you guys in sunnier climes are doing better.
I'm trying to open up some new revenue streams such as print sales (am I nuts?).  I know some people headed off to Dubai for work, but I hear that's not as busy as it was.  It's a bit embarrassing posting this but there has been relatively little discussion about the recession on this forum except in terms of manufacturers.  I thought I would bring it up as I think that you guys have valuable insights into how the business works etc and I would love to hear your experiences or opinions!

R

I can imagine how you feel when it all slows down and comes to a grinding halt.
Hasn't happened to me here at all, it is still all go go go.
Very busy with architecture, interior and hotels.
I guess if I would find myself in a situation where the work started to dry up
I would focus on diversifying, so going into prints might be an option.
My stock photography income has steadily increased for me as well over the years
and that is not even geochraphicaly tied to where i live as that income comes from the US and Europe.
An other option would be to find interesting interior stories and pitch them to magazines.
I know the magazines are getting thinner or disappearing, but the best stories will always be published.
other then that I can not offer very much, I wish anyone in your situation lots of luck and strength to pull through.
Everything comes in cycles, so just be prepared for the next set of waves!
cheers
Marc

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amsp

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 07:13:30 pm »

You crack me the hell up snook, you're like the forum jester  
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Snook

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 10:07:08 pm »

Quote from: amsp
You crack me the hell up snook, you're like the forum jester  

I try my best...LOL..
I was born with out a filter...
Leave me alone my Birthday is tomorrow...:+}
Snook
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Kirk Gittings

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 12:44:09 am »

I get a bit of a bump from a short recession with architects (from architects getting serious about their marketing). This recession may be a very different story.......but the architecture magazine business, which is half my income with both stock sales and assignments, is waaaaay off.
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Frank Doorhof

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2009, 02:27:15 am »

We have several workareas and some are hit some are not.
The workshops have a maybe 15% decrease, alot of those people are willing to come but simply don't have a job anymore or are not willing to spend now.
But we're still able to do on an avarage 8 workshops a month.

We are however busier than ever with the hairdressers.
In December last year (after doing some hair in the past) I thought that this part of the market would be less hit by the crisis because everyone needs a haircut and there are alot of competitions in that area so we started putting out some material to hairdressers and that paid off, we're doing more and more hair now.

Our "fun" sessions called model for a day are almost dead.
But this is for us the part that hardly pays anything and was more meant to fill up hours we had free and to keep busy (I love my work)

But we are in an area that is not hit hard by the crisis, we're not located in a big city.

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Dustbak

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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2009, 03:57:22 am »

As someone above mentioned. Catalogue work is going pretty strong at the moment. Especially web (digital) catalogue work. My magazine work has dropped because their advertisers have decided to cut budgets or re-allocate them (more to online, less to magazines). There is movement, which is intrigueing to see happening to say the least.

Erick, I know you mentioned this somewhere at the end of last year. Probably you were in a market that got hit before many others. Over here in all sorts of markets the big hit came around November while October was for many industries still pretty good.

A client that is a big producer of automative paints saw a sudden drop of income of over 30% in November where October was still around the 0% line. Just to give an indication of how fast things have gone sour in certain areas.

Nobody laughed at you at the end of last year as I recall it. No need to add insult to injury with your remarks. Good to hear that apparently in your part of the world there is light at the end of the tunnel. Happy birthday!!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2009, 03:58:03 am by Dustbak »
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roskav

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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2009, 05:10:23 am »

Many thanks for your responses, much better than what I could have wished for and it's great to hear good news stories.  I suppose that one of the extremely obvious things is that one of photography's great strengths, it's ability to graft itself neatly on to other industries, is also something that opens the photographer to a large vulnerability.  This is one big reason why it is good to have a diverse range of clients.  Interesting to hear about the catalogue work ... my main work at present is for companies with difficulties themselves but who are trying to put their best foot forward in their marketing.... so snap.  One other type of diversification is expanding your skill-set .. I thought that this article http://www.photo-marketing-tips.com/?p=639 had something interesting to say about video.  One of the other ideas that I might be looking at with a colleague is to run some courses with "local amateurs"    ...

As for Suzie with her camera ... yup I think that is a big factor in my line of work... but I started out that way (well ... I learned on the job and was quite cheap) so I think it's a natural part of people coming in at the basic end of the business.

One thing that I think is a cost effective way of keeping your clients and attracting more... and it really doesn't have to cost anything .. is service.  If you can keep your communications with your clients efficiently open and engaging, and give them over and above what they expect, then you will be placing yourselves in the best position for any repeat work.

Thanks again for the comments.  

PS some jobs have come in since the last post so the wolf has gone off to have a look at the straw house instead.

Ros


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Graham Mitchell

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2009, 05:13:34 am »

I'm also pleasantly surprised, but then again the Baltics (where I am) is the worst affected region of the world right now, with GDP shrinking about 12%: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8022961.stm
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geesbert

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« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2009, 07:47:19 am »

Quote : "One thing that I think is a cost effective way of keeping your clients and attracting more... and it really doesn't have to cost anything .. is service. If you can keep your communications with your clients efficiently open and engaging, and give them over and above what they expect, then you will be placing yourselves in the best position for any repeat work."

That is so true!

no client gives a fuck whether you shoot the latest gear and which format and how much too much you spent on the latest medium format camera, but they really care for perfect communication, 100% reliability, great food on location, nice pampering around and having a good time. My catering bills went up recently, but I am not charging for it as a seperate item anymore. I'll get the best sweets and chocolates available for shootings, and they realise that. there isn't so much knowledge about the quality of Photography, but they know good chocolate and a good time.

as a photographer this stinks, but as a businessman I am alright with this
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Snook

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Tumbleweed
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2009, 10:48:44 am »

Quote from: Dustbak
As someone above mentioned. Catalogue work is going pretty strong at the moment. Especially web (digital) catalogue work. My magazine work has dropped because their advertisers have decided to cut budgets or re-allocate them (more to online, less to magazines). There is movement, which is intrigueing to see happening to say the least.

Erick, I know you mentioned this somewhere at the end of last year. Probably you were in a market that got hit before many others. Over here in all sorts of markets the big hit came around November while October was for many industries still pretty good.

A client that is a big producer of automative paints saw a sudden drop of income of over 30% in November where October was still around the 0% line. Just to give an indication of how fast things have gone sour in certain areas.

Nobody laughed at you at the end of last year as I recall it. No need to add insult to injury with your remarks. Good to hear that apparently in your part of the world there is light at the end of the tunnel. Happy birthday!!

Thanks Dustbak...I appreciate it..:+}

Snook
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