NEC monitors to SpectraView or not?

[tived]

Hi guys,

here in australia, we can buy 2690xxx and 2690 spectraview one is AUD$2000 and the later AUD$3999

what is the difference between the two...on the spec sheets the both look the same. so what it is?

A sales man told me, that the spectraview series, are the pick of the crop, and have been pulled off and fine tuned.

I see that in the US, you can buy the Spectraview II software for around US$99 or so

can anyone please help me clarify this? or should I just be looking on an CG240W ??

thanks guys

Henrik

[EdRosch]

Wow!  On the B&H site the difference is only $250 US -  $1,200 plain vs. $1.450 with SV.  The only difference that I know of is that the Spectraview comes with both the hardware and software calibration solution tailored to it.  Other than that, I think they're identical.  I have the SV and I can say that for $250 extra it's worth every cent.  At double the price??  I think somethings fishy.

With these monitors you do need to invest in a quality calibration system and learn to use it or you might have well purchased a monitor at half the price.  

Ed

[digitaldog]

Wow!  On the B&H site the difference is only $250 US -  $1,200 plain vs. $1.450 with SV.  The only difference that I know of is that the Spectraview comes with both the hardware and software calibration solution tailored to it.  Other than that, I think they're identical.  I have the SV and I can say that for $250 extra it's worth every cent.  At double the price??  I think somethings fishy.

I think you're right (hardware should be the same). The price sounds quite odd. Hopefully Will from NEC will chime in, however, he's responsible for US products. Over here, the $250 for the software/instrument are an awesome deal and yes, you want to drive these units with the NEC software.

[tived]

I think you're right (hardware should be the same). The price sounds quite odd. Hopefully Will from NEC will chime in, however, he's responsible for US products. Over here, the $250 for the software/instrument are an awesome deal and yes, you want to drive these units with the NEC software.

Andrew,

I value your input here, do you know of any evidence that there is any differences, I mean, it can't just be because it is bundled with an iOne or similar and their software.

Do the owners of these NEC 2690 have spectraview written on them or multisync ?

Are they running a scam here in Australia? can I measure the differences? this seems really odd - here they compare it to a GM GTO road car vs a GM GTO NASCAR, as it one is tuned for performance. More so then their normal non-spectraview screens

I am confused - I really don't want to have to pay twice the price for something.

Also the software, from NEC USA, is only for residence, or not for overseas. I'll have to get my brother to buy it for me :-) if I go down this route

thanks

Henrik

[Morris Taub]

Andrew,

I value your input here, do you know of any evidence that there is any differences, I mean, it can't just be because it is bundled with an iOne or similar and their software.

Do the owners of these NEC 2690 have spectraview written on them or multisync ?

Are they running a scam here in Australia? can I measure the differences? this seems really odd - here they compare it to a GM GTO road car vs a GM GTO NASCAR, as it one is tuned for performance. More so then their normal non-spectraview screens

I am confused - I really don't want to have to pay twice the price for something.

Also the software, from NEC USA, is only for residence, or not for overseas. I'll have to get my brother to buy it for me :-) if I go down this route

thanks

Henrik

Henrik, I don't 'know' but suspect the monitors are the same and this is just another way for a company to separate people from their money...

I read some older posts on other forums about people buying spectaview versions and still getting dead/stuck pixels so I have real doubts about this hand picked nonsense...

the same thing, well not quite so bad as in your neck of the woods, happens here in France...the price is usually doubled for the spectraview version...I have read that the non spectraview monitors here in europe have access to the internal adjustments blocked so you can't just buy the 2490 or 2690 and pick up the software and use it...I don't know if this is true...

many here have written about how the spectraview software does provide better calibration so if you don't want to spend the bucks maybe the cg240 would be a better route for you...only you can say...it's too bad because the NEC monitors have an excellent rep for image and color quality...

it really is unscrupulous how these importers do business...the software and puck cost about 200 euros/dollars...here in france the 2490 spectraview model adds near 800 euros to the price of the monitor...obscene...

one difference here in France, the spectraview version comes with the software and a monitor hood but no puck...you have to buy that separately...

good luck with your decision...

[tived]

Hi bonjour momo2,

I did go down today and picked up the non Spectraview , though not yet set up, probably tonight. I just reminded myself that the Tax office here is giving 30% tax relief to purchases to business for over AUD$1000 so maybe getting the Spectraview might not be such a bad idea, i am getting almost 1/3 back in Tax. which makes it...still twice the price ;-)ohh had to work that one out first. but never the less, i would be getting supposedly more for less.

The other thing, I was also looking at the 30in WOW, awesome! it really made the 26 look small, well smaller

The CG240 is the same price as the Spectraview here.

hmm, i will have to have a look, is there a good way to test this screen ?

thanks

Henrik

[digitaldog]

I value your input here, do you know of any evidence that there is any differences, I mean, it can't just be because it is bundled with an iOne or similar and their software.

The colorimeter is fine, not the issue (unless you opt for the newer, wide gamut filters on an NEC branded iOne). But the software is significantly different and no, EyeOne Match doesn't provide the same functionality as the SpectraView II software which is key IMHO for making the panel as optimal a solution as it can be.

Do the owners of these NEC 2690 have spectraview written on them or multisync ?

Are they running a scam here in Australia? can I measure the differences? this seems really odd - here they compare it to a GM GTO road car vs a GM GTO NASCAR, as it one is tuned for performance. More so then their normal non-spectraview screens

I really don't know what's going on down under in terms of pricing and what they are selling. I'd ask a good, local reseller (like Kayell) then check with NEC.

[tived]

Hi guys,

thanks for replying i really appreciate this. I know there is a lot of information out on the net regarding this, and I am probably asking some of the questions here, that have already been asked and answered. Its just I regard peoples opinions here more then other places.

I had a look at the two screens yesterday, side by side, apart from the hood on the Spectraview I couldn't tell the difference. they didn't have any tools to quantify the differences, only that one came with a certificate. When loading the spectraview software, it shows up on both screens describing each screen (this is on a MacPro) and the non-spectraview version had an option to adjust hardware, whereas the other didn't? other then that I couldn't see or find any differences.

so I ended up getting the non-spectraview, with the option of returning it next week should I discover anything that were to change me mind

I am looking at it this way, the non spectraview would be fine for 98% of the work, the spectraview would really only shine in situations were I had to identify if I actually had the red color of the Coca-Cola logo or not, please correct me if I am wrong. Having said that, if I had bought equipment a year ago and asked myself it I need X because of the work I was doing at the time, and trying to have foresight. I could not have predicted what I do now, compare to then. In other words, I do more demanding work today then a year ago. Know that, will I be doing work next year the is in that last 2% range?? Then again, if I am, then I could probably also charge that much more and the issue of a screen wouldn't be a concern :-)

wishful thinking :-)

thanks guys, keep the ball rolling

Henrik

[Phil Indeblanc]

Henrik,

there is no difference, from what I have also read, it sounds like they are sticking it to those out of the US.  You are paying a premium.

For that money you could get yourself an LED Samsung XL30!

[Josh-H]

Henrik,

there is no difference, from what I have also read, it sounds like they are sticking it to those out of the US.  You are paying a premium.

For that money you could get yourself an LED Samsung XL30!

Actually - that is not quite correct, or rather that isnt the whole story. There is a difference between the US monitors and the Euro / Australian monitors. I have been over this extensively in my own research and experience - initially I was of the belief that there were no differences (as is widely and wildly reported on the web) - but this is not the case. And its worth going over the facts as there is more disinformation on the web about Spectraview than there is factual information. The reason for the missinformation and confusion s several fold - Firstly, it is most likely that USA users of multisync and spectraview monitors are simply not aware that their SpectraView II software is not what the rest of the world uses - they just are not aware of the Spectraview Profiler software that Europe and Australia use. Or, that the monitors are supplied with different firmware outside of the USA. Secondly, the fact that there is SpectraView II software and Spectraview Profiler Software causes more confusion.

By way of some background - it is only in the last 18 months or so that Spectraview monitors have even been available in Australia (to my knowledge anyway). Standard multisync monitors have been available for some time  (years) - including the 2690 Wuxi (which is what I have and have owned for approx 2 years).

In Australia the monitors sold as Spectraview are hand picked and hand tested in Australia from a pool of multi-sync monitors to meet the stringent spectraview standard - from what I can gather having spoken at length to NEC Australia and the people who certify the monitors - most fail and only 1 in 3 make standard. They are then certified as Spectraview and supplied with a certificate of their performance as well as a licence for Spectraview profiler software - they are also supplied with a monitor hood. This is not the case in the USA. In the USA, form what I can tell, Spectraview monitors undergo no hand testing or picking. They are standard multi-sync monitors that are packaged with the US written software known as SpectraView II for full access to the hardware LUT's. The USA Spectraview branded monitors are also supplied with monitor hoods.

This is not to dish out on what NEC USA do as opposed to Europe and Australia. The standard multisync monitors like the 2690 Wuxi are VERY fine monitors indeed - MUCH MUCH better than monitors like the Dell and Apple cookie cutter stuff and with a much larger gamut.

NEC Australia did have up until 2 days ago here: Differences a very clear FAQ on the differences between the Australian SpectraView monitors and the standard multi-sync monitors. This page seems to have been taken down for some reason however - I will watch to see if they upload it again. They have left this page up - Spectraview reference - what you get

Stick with me on this - as it gets more convoluted yet...

Spectraview II software is sold exclusively in the USA and was written for the USA market - this is that software: SpectraView II Software
You cant buy or rather they wont ship this software to a non-USA address.

In the USA you can buy this software on its own - and it will work with multi-sync monitors like the 2690 Wuxi. However, be aware, that there is no warranty or support for this software outside of the USA. And, if like me, it doesnt work because of an incompatability wth your video card or whatever... well your hosed. You can read all about my experiences of such here: Spectraview experiences

The Australian and Euro monitors use this software: Spectraview Profiler There is a free 14 day trial for this software. It is widely accepted that the Spectraview Profiler software is superior to the USA Spectraview II software. The technical reasons for this I am unaware of - but I have had several technicians at Spectraview tell me the same story - So I have to take their word for it. Google searches show the same thing - but dont get into the reasons for one being better than the other. If anyone can shed some knowledge on this it would be great.

The Firmware in the Australian spetraview monitors are also different from the standard 2690 Wuxi or multi sync monitors sold here. This firmware enables the monitor to communicate in full via the DDCI communications protocol with Spectraview profiler software (the rebadged basic color software) for full calibration of the hardware LUT's in the monitor.WITHOUT THIS FIRMWARE - YOU CANNOT ACCESS THE LUT'S IN THE MONITOR FOR FULL HARDWARE CALIBRATION - the option to do is greyed out in the SpectraView Profiler software. Standard 2690 Wuxi and Multi-sync monitors in Australia (and Europe) are sold with hamstrung firmware to prevent access to the LUT's in the monitor - even with the Spectraview profiler software.

It 'appears' that very early multi-sync monitors in Australia and Europe did not have the hamstrung firmware - and in the advanced monitor menu there was an option to enable spectraview - shown here: Activating SpectraView. This option was 'kindly' removed by NEC in later and all subsequent monitors - thus removing the ability to hardware calibrate the monitors internal LUT's. Unfortunately for me my 2690 Wuxi falls into the category of having the hamstrung firmware - doh. If your monitor is 2 years old or less.. then chances are it has the hamstrung firmware.

It is worth noting at this point that you cant 'user-update' the firmware in a multi-sync monitor. A firmware upgrade requires a 'jig' - which is not available to the end user. The NEC part number for this jig is P/N 599910508 - good luck if you try to source one - I wasnt able to get one. There have been several firmware updates for the 2690 Wuxi in Australia - and they include:  1.00.03, 1.00.07, 1.00.08 and 1.00.09 (all of which I have on a USB stick - but are useless without the 'jig') - To Date, I have not been able to get the firmware updated in my own 2690 Wuxi from Version 1.00.00 or get access to a 'jig' to see if I can activate the full hardware LUT's to work with Spectraview Profiler software. It may well be the case that even if I could get hold of the 'jig' that there is other firmware needed to get the spectraview profiler software to talk to the monitors hardware LUT's that I dont have.

The net result of all of this in Australia is if you purchase a full spectraview branded monitor you get a hand picked hand certified and tested panel with full hardware calibration enabled with Spectraview profiler software. If you buy a standard multisync version to save some money then you dont get the best panels and you cant access the hardware LUT's with the spectraview profiler software - you may be able to access them with the USA spectraview II software if you can get a copy and 'IF' it works without conflicts on your system (it didnt for me - ona  late 2008 Mac Pro with NVidia 8800GT video card).

One thing I didnt mention - you can run the Spectraview profiler software with a standard multisync monitor like the 2690 Wuxi and do a combined hardware and software calibration - but it is NOT a true calibration using the hardware LUT's in the monitor. Its a bastardized version utilising the video card LUT's and some hardware settings on the monitor - not ideal and not as good as a full hardware calibration.

NEC Australia and NEC America and NEC Europe really should issue a clarification statement on the whole spectraview series for everyones sake - it would clear the severely muddied waters. Because reality is, in this global world, many people source products from all over the world and can easily end up with hardware they cant properly calibrate or needing software they cant easily access.

It looks like Australia is now starting to get its act together - there are official Spectraview channel partners in most if not all states and a dedicated website to Spectraview SpectraView

Edit - So what does all of this mean to a prospective purchaser in Australia?

Well.. you have a decision to make.

1. Pony up the coin for a Spectraview Reference monitor and get the best with full hardware calibration
Or
2. Save some coin and buy a standard multisync and try to source SpectraView II software from the USA and hope for the best. If it works for you, then great, you get full hardware calibration. If it doesnt, then you need to purchase a licence for Spectraview profiler and live with a combined hardware and software calibration that doesnt take advantage of the monitors internal 12 bit LUT's.

I know it sux - I wish it were not the case - I wish you could buy a standard 2690 Wuxi and properly hardware calibrate it with spectraview profiler - but you cant. You need to spend the money on the Spectraview Reference branded monitor if you want the 12 bit hardware LUT calibration.

If you havent purchased yet, my advice is to simply pony up the coin for the Spectraview Reference. If, like me you have a standard 2690 Wuxi, well.. you can either sell it and buy a SpectraView reference, or keep it and live it - such is life I am afraid.

A further Edit

I am looking at it this way, the non spectraview would be fine for 98% of the work, the spectraview would really only shine in situations were I had to identify if I actually had the red color of the Coca-Cola logo or not, please correct me if I am wrong. Having said that, if I had bought equipment a year ago and asked myself it I need X because of the work I was doing at the time, and trying to have foresight. I could not have predicted what I do now, compare to then. In other words, I do more demanding work today then a year ago. Know that, will I be doing work next year the is in that last 2% range?? Then again, if I am, then I could probably also charge that much more and the issue of a screen wouldn't be a concern :-)

There is more to it than just matching a color I am afraid. Of greater importance is the Spectraveiew references ability to accurately track greyscale, hold black at black and white at white without color shift - as easily seen in a greyscale ramp. They perform better than standard multisync monitors in this regard. In fact, this is one of the tests that help ascertain a monitors worthiness for spectraview reference branding.

In practice this means - a Spectraview reference monitor 'should' have better greyscale tracking - which effects ALL images you look at on the screen - and not just color matching.

In actual daily use - it is likely that you would see no difference between a Spectraview Reference and a Multisync 2690 Wuxi when viewing normal images. It is probably going to take test images such as greyscale ramps to show a difference. Due to the Spectraveiw references ability to track greyscale better without colour shifts it is also likely it can go longer between calibrations than a standard multi-sync. But both should still be calibrated on a regular basis.

BTW, and again just by way of some background: My own backgground in color management  - I hold an ISF certified technician certificate from the Imaging Science Foundation.

Sorry for the length of this post - But I hope this helps clear some of the confusion regarding spectraview - its by no means a definitive statement on the state of play - that needs to come from NEC. It is what I have learned from doing my own research and from my own experience - there may well be other information I am not aware of, or more up to date information.

Now that Spectraview monitors are actually available in Australia and not just multi-syncs it should be easier for prospective purchasers to make an educated decision on what they want and need by speaking to an authorised channel partner.

_________EDIT and UPDATE______

I had a phone call today from AWA - who are the NEC appointed service agents in Victoria Australia (NEC now outsource their service in Australia) to inform me that they now had in their possession the 'jig' for updating the firmware in the 2690 Wuxi. Yay! And that they would be over to my studio in the next hour to perform the update. Yay again!

As I write this the technician has just left my studio - together we went through the pretty simple process of updating the firmware to the latest revision 1.00.09. The update took 10 minutes. All you need is the 'jig' (which you cant get) and a laptop (PC) with a serial port (yeah.. good luck finding one of those now days) and of course the firmware and the firmware  loading software (both of which I have kept copies of). The instructions were in badly translated Japanese - but muddling through is not that difficult.

Anyway - net result of the firmware update - The US spectraview II software now is working!    And I now get full communications and access to the 12 bit LUT's for proper hardware calibration. Yay!!!!

The European and Australian Spectraview Profiler software still does not give access to the Hardware LUT's in the monitor - even after the firmware upgrade (I suspected this may be the case). There is no option during the firmware update process that I could find to enable this setting anywhere and it appears for all intent and purpose to require different firmware - or rather the Spectraview branded references monitors are using different firmware that the Spectraview profiler software recognises and talks to for full hardware calibration of the monitors 12 bit LUT's.

The conclusion of all this is that it is highly probable (and I am making an assumption here) that when NEC USA updated the Spectraview II software (I am not sure of the exact update as there have been several) that they did not test it on 2690 Wuxi monitors running firmware revision 1.00.00. But most likely on monitors running subsequent firmware. If they had test on firmware 1.00.00, they would probably have experienced the same communications problems I did and realise something was broken or not working with this early factory firmware. Because it appears that updating the firmware in the monitor has resolved the issue - as indeed it has. Again - this part is speculation on my part - at the end of the day I dont know what caused the communications issue - only that updating the monitors firmware resolved it.

So - the end of a long saga- where I learnt a lot about Spectraview that I hope may help others looking to purchase one of these monitors - be it a multi-sync or a branded Spectraview reference monitor.

I cant reccomend buying a 2690 Wuxi and sourcing the SpectraView II software from the USA as I have done (because its a lot cheaper than buying a spectraview branded reference monitor in Australia) simply because of the problems I experienced (even though they are now resolved). My recommendation is if you want to properly hardware calibrate your monitor utilizing the 12 bit internal LUT's in australia that you purchase the Spectraview branded reference monitor and save yourself potentially a lot of headaches even though it lightens your wallet  some more. And buy from an authorised reseller so you have local support.

Phew!

[tived]

Thanks Josh,

thats a bit of a mouth full - I mean a lot of information to digest :-) I have bought the non-spectraview 2690 and I am very pleased with it, I can't imagine what the Spectraview would be like, but it can only be short of amazing.

I will buy the ColorBlind software since I can not get the Spectraview software legally.

thanks

Henrik

[Josh-H]

Thanks Josh,

thats a bit of a mouth full - I mean a lot of information to digest :-) I have bought the non-spectraview 2690 and I am very pleased with it, I can't imagine what the Spectraview would be like, but it can only be short of amazing.

I will buy the ColorBlind software since I can not get the Spectraview software legally.

thanks

Henrik

No worries - I have posted an update to my post above by way of an edit.

[tived]

No worries - I have posted an update to my post above by way of an edit.

Ok Josh,

read that, and I think I understood it, so...why can't they make this available to us mortals? and if they provided it to you, should I not be able to get it as well - all things being equal :-)

Henrik

[Josh-H]

Ok Josh,

read that, and I think I understood it, so...why can't they make this available to us mortals? and if they provided it to you, should I not be able to get it as well - all things being equal :-)

Henrik

Well.. I agree with you. I spent more hours than I care to count on email and phone with NEC USA, NEC Australia, AWA (the Australian/Victorian service agents for NEC) and the Spectraview people to get my issue resolved.

To be fair - a lot of the people I spoke to and who helped me didn't have to - Remember Spectraview II software was written for the USA market exclusively - and even though I legally obtained and purchased a copy I am using it outside of the USA and technically they didn't have to help me to get it working. Although I guess you could argue that they are obligated (NEC Australia that is) to provide up to date firmware for their products and install that firmware (which is what they did). I then checked the SpectraView II software and it works with the updated firmware.

So long story short 'they' havent actually provided me with anything - other than updating the firmware in my monitor and a lot of advice.

The first thing you need to check (and I assume you are in Australia) is what version firmware your monitor is running. If you need newer firmware, contact NEC and request they update the firmware for you.

NEC and AWA didnt supply me the  'jig' - so I cant do firmware updates - I need to get them back each time. Yes, I have (had) a copy of the firmware - but its totally useless without the 'jig' and for all intents and purposes I may as well not have had it - I deleted it last night as I saw no point in keeping a copy without the 'jig'.

In relation to the Spectraview II software - NEC America's policy is very clear. Their software is for sale to US customers only. So you need to have a US shipping address and a US credit card to purchase it. I cant help you with this unfortunately.

I dont believe there is a trial version of the Spectraview II software either (there is of the spectraview profiler software, but that WONT give proper full hardware calibration on non spectraview reference monitors).

Again - all I can really say after this whole experience is if you are in Australia - buy a local Spectraview Reference branded monitor from a local authorised reseller and enjoy.

If you already own a 2690 Wuxi multisync - then purchase and run Spectraview Profiler - which will give a hardware and software calibration (see my comments on this in my long post above) Or, if you have a US shipping address and a US credit card, you can purchase Spectraview II software for full hardware calibration if your monitor is not running firmware version 1.00.00.

[MarkF]

"you may be able to access them with the USA spectraview II software if you can get a copy and 'IF' it works without conflicts on your system (it didnt for me - ona late 2008 Mac Pro with NVidia 8800GT video card)."

Guess I must be lucky. Spectraview 2 works fine on my 2690, and with a 8800Gt video card, but not on my friends' 2690 Wuxi2. How to check which firmware loaded on the monitor?

[Josh-H]

"you may be able to access them with the USA spectraview II software if you can get a copy and 'IF' it works without conflicts on your system (it didnt for me - ona late 2008 Mac Pro with NVidia 8800GT video card)."

Guess I must be lucky. Spectraview 2 works fine on my 2690, and with a 8800Gt video card, but not on my friends' 2690 Wuxi2. How to check which firmware loaded on the monitor?

Open the Spectraview II software and go to the Tools / Information / Summary Tab - it will report the monitors firmware.

BTW: All of the above experiences relate to my 2690 Wuxi. I have no idea what firmware 2690 Wuxi2 monitors ship with or what if anything is required to get either Spectraview II or Spectraview Profiler working on a 2690 Wuxi2.

This thread here Hard Forum Thread has some more very good information - mainly on the 2490 Wuxi - but much of it relates to the 2690 Wuxi.

[Phil Indeblanc]

wow, lots of info, but I think that explains it. Cheers!