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Author Topic: Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching  (Read 8269 times)

DougMorgan

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« on: May 04, 2009, 11:46:03 pm »

Hello all:

I wanted to know if anyone has had trouble with Breathing Color's Chromata white going slack in a matter of a week or two after stretching.  I am trying to narrow down the source of a problem we've been having and I wondered how often others have had to tighten up a canvas piece.  Anyone having problems?

Thanks in advance....
Doug
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 11:48:57 pm by DougMorgan »
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bill t.

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 12:16:57 am »

Canvases can go slack (or even become tighger) mainly in response to humidity and temperature changes.  There is also a certain amount of initial loosening for newly mounted canvas.  If the canvas went slack in response to unusual humidity, best thing might be to do nothing.  I have seen stretched canvas temporarily sag then re-tighten untouched by human hands, sort of like a humidity meter.

Many stretcher bars have triangular wedges at the corners (viewed from the back) which you can pound in slightly to re-tension the canvas.  But for those stretchesr without adjustability you can spritz the back of the canvas with a very fine water spray, many times this will tighten the canvas as it dries.  Worst case, pull out the staples and try again, but don't rush into that until you give it some time.

On very big canvases you can get sagging from inadequate bracing which causes the existing rails to bow.  The cure is to add some additional wood bracing.
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Paul2660

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 09:51:39 am »

If you have sag, and it was a good stretch, take a  blow dryer with gentle heat to the back of the canvas.  It should tighten right back up.  More than likely it is humidity (as already posted) and the heat will fix the issue.

Paul Caldwell
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framah

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 09:37:02 am »

This is a fairly common problem with the canvas giclees.  They behave differently than a canvas with oils or acrylics . The gesso prep of the painted canvases helps to size the canvas and when you stretch them, they stay that way until humidity or pokey fingers do something to require a resnugging of the canvas. With inkjet canvas, the material is prepped to receive the ink but it does not size it and so the fabric wants to relax over time... sometimes a short amount of time.. like a week or two even.
If you tighten it too much, you risk cracking the ink at the edges of the image.

In the framing world, quite a few recommend to just dry mount the canvas so it is stable and then frame it.

Not all canvases for inkjet are created equal so some will have this problem more so than others. I've had some come in that were quite stable and never came back to be tightened, and others that finally had to be dry mounted so the customer was finally happy.
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DougMorgan

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 02:41:23 pm »

Thanks for the replies folks but I was wondering if anyone had noticed an increase in the breathing color going slack after a proper stretching.    

We've had a bunch of canvas going very loose soon after stretching where as before it was rare.   Occurs across multiple canvas batches so not just a bad lot of media.   Has occurred on dozens of both large and small pieces.   Everything is gallery wrapped and fine cracks on the edge seem to be par for the course but  another issue.  Professional builds the frames and does all the stretching (not me) and though the frames are keyed most are large enough to need centre bracing which unfortunately precludes using wedges since the internal bracing is fixed in place.

I'm basically trying to make sure no one else has noticed an issue with the Chromata in this regard recently.    If not the canvas, it could be a temperature/humidity issue (more the former I suspect) or perhaps even improperly dried lumber for the stretcher frames.   But I need to eliminate the canvas as a culprit.  After going round with BC regarding the persistent cracking on the edges I wanted some outside input to confirm it is not the canvas itself.

Thanks
Doug
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Wayne Fox

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 04:52:33 pm »

Quote from: DougMorgan
Thanks for the replies folks but I was wondering if anyone had noticed an increase in the breathing color going slack after a proper stretching.    

We've had a bunch of canvas going very loose soon after stretching where as before it was rare.   Occurs across multiple canvas batches so not just a bad lot of media.   Has occurred on dozens of both large and small pieces.   Everything is gallery wrapped and fine cracks on the edge seem to be par for the course but  another issue.  Professional builds the frames and does all the stretching (not me) and though the frames are keyed most are large enough to need centre bracing which unfortunately precludes using wedges since the internal bracing is fixed in place.

I'm basically trying to make sure no one else has noticed an issue with the Chromata in this regard recently.    If not the canvas, it could be a temperature/humidity issue (more the former I suspect) or perhaps even improperly dried lumber for the stretcher frames.   But I need to eliminate the canvas as a culprit.  After going round with BC regarding the persistent cracking on the edges I wanted some outside input to confirm it is not the canvas itself.

Thanks
Doug

Are the problem BC canvas prints coated with GlamourII?

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bill t.

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 12:40:27 am »

Quote from: DougMorgan
Thanks for the replies folks but I was wondering if anyone had noticed an increase in the breathing color going slack after a proper stretching.    

We've had a bunch of canvas going very loose soon after stretching where as before it was rare.   Occurs across multiple canvas batches so not just a bad lot of media.   Has occurred on dozens of both large and small pieces.   Everything is gallery wrapped and fine cracks on the edge seem to be par for the course but  another issue.  Professional builds the frames and does all the stretching (not me) and though the frames are keyed most are large enough to need centre bracing which unfortunately precludes using wedges since the internal bracing is fixed in place.

I'm basically trying to make sure no one else has noticed an issue with the Chromata in this regard recently.    If not the canvas, it could be a temperature/humidity issue (more the former I suspect) or perhaps even improperly dried lumber for the stretcher frames.   But I need to eliminate the canvas as a culprit.  After going round with BC regarding the persistent cracking on the edges I wanted some outside input to confirm it is not the canvas itself.

Thanks
Doug
Well I've noticed at least 3 significantly different weave patterns on Chromata rolls over the last three months.  Could have something to do with it.

I gave up on stretching canvas as being simply too stressful in all the ways mentioned above.  It is extremely easy and very fast to glue any sort and size of coated canvas to Gatorfoam, I'll never go back to stretching.
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DougMorgan

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2009, 01:09:29 am »

Quote from: bill t.
Well I've noticed at least 3 significantly different weave patterns on Chromata rolls over the last three months.  Could have something to do with it.

I gave up on stretching canvas as being simply too stressful n all the ways mentioned above.  It is extremely easy and very fast to glue any sort and size of coated canvas to Gatorfoam, I'll never go back to stretching.

Thanks Bill,  the person that does our stretching has commented on the material changing between batches as well and believes it is the problem which is what I am basically trying to confirm or disprove.  

I've noticed a few odd rolls that seem to be thicker or thinner than normal but since I don't do the stretching I don't really get a "feel" for the canvas.   But I have noticed there seems to be much more variance in the 17inch wide stock than the wider rolls, and it's noticable even though I go through maybe 8 times more 24 inch media than 17.   One of the last 17inch rolls was out and out defective and cracked across the face when stretching (returned for a credit).

Drymount probably isn't an option.  Most of our outlets are frames shops and AFAIK none either have done or would accept the pieces mounted in this way.   Everything we stretch ourselves is gallery-wrapped so a frame is optional and (again AFAIK) most are sold unframed to the end consumer.   Only a couple places do their own stretching and any other flat pieces are usually unstretched to make shipping cheaper for out-of-town customers.   I don't know if it's an issue or not for dry mounting but I do large panoramas that are up to 9 feet long.  6 feet wide is the most common size (or at least it was until the crash).

Wayne:  All our pieces are sprayed with about 8 light coats of the glamour II.  I don't do the spraying myself either as I don't have the space.  Previously we were laminating all our prints which had few problems until the outfit doing the laminating let us down and wrecked nearly 2K in prints.

We've gone around once with BC regarding cracking on the edges and it basically ended with BC insisting the canvas wouldn't crack when it obviously does so I'm left asking if others have similar experiences.   If anyone else has had problems or suggestions please chime in!

Thanks
Doug
« Last Edit: May 09, 2009, 01:12:16 am by DougMorgan »
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bill t.

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2009, 04:14:14 am »

Quote from: DougMorgan
But I have noticed there seems to be much more variance in the 17inch wide stock than the wider rolls, and it's noticable even though I go through maybe 8 times more 24 inch media than 17.
Likewise with the 17's.  The most recent 17 has an extremely exaggerated texture across the 17" axis, like long, one-directional grooves.  But in the long dimension it's much smoother.  I think it's 4:1 weave.  Recent 24's also show that one-directional bias, but not so much and also the grooves aren't so deep.  If I display prints next to each other with the "grooves" in opposite directions, anybody can plainly see the difference between the two textures, it's an all-to-noticeable feature of the prints.

For this reason have been gradually switching to Fredrix 777, it has a symmetrical weave in both directions and is overall much finer and a little sharper printing.  It's one of the few inkjet canvases that actually looks like oil painting canvas.  It prints differently, so it's not trivial to convert a bunch of images zeroed in on BC.

It seems as though canvas makers somehow got a hair about texture recently.  Epson completely ruined Premium Canvas Matte with a recent texture change, and even formerly uber-wonderful Dura901 is now showing the one-directional grooving thing.
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DougMorgan

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2009, 11:27:56 am »

Quote from: bill t.
Likewise with the 17's.  The most recent 17 has an extremely exaggerated texture across the 17" axis, like long, one-directional grooves.  But in the long dimension it's much smoother.  I think it's 4:1 weave.  Recent 24's also show that one-directional bias, but not so much and also the grooves aren't so deep.  If I display prints next to each other with the "grooves" in opposite directions, anybody can plainly see the difference between the two textures, it's an all-to-noticeable feature of the prints.

For this reason have been gradually switching to Fredrix 777, it has a symmetrical weave in both directions and is overall much finer and a little sharper printing.  It's one of the few inkjet canvases that actually looks like oil painting canvas.  It prints differently, so it's not trivial to convert a bunch of images zeroed in on BC.

It seems as though canvas makers somehow got a hair about texture recently.  Epson completely ruined Premium Canvas Matte with a recent texture change, and even formerly uber-wonderful Dura901 is now showing the one-directional grooving thing.


Thanks very much for the info.   It seems to confirm what the stretcher is saying.    

I really would rather not switch canvas as the BC is by far the most economical, at least shipped to Canada.   I switched to the chromata from the Epson piezo pro which I preferred though with the epson it was always a huge supply problem and several times was unavailable across North America.   At one point we were considering switching back (due to BC cracking issues) but that was when epson stupidly changed the name from Piezo pro to premium canvas and removed it from the market completely for a month or two to reprint their boxes -- a move which pretty much eliminated epson canvas from consideration -- I can't sell prints if I have nothing to print on.   Too bad Epson changed the texture as I thought it had the best look and feel of the seven or eight canvases I've tried, though with epson's supply situation it wasn't meant for professionals.   Ilfords smooth canvas was similar but even harder to locate and much more expensive.  
I'll have to try and locate a supply of the fredrix and maybe get some samples in case this problem isn't surmountable.    

Thanks again
Doug
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Paul2660

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2009, 12:44:35 pm »



I gave up on stretching canvas as being simply too stressful in all the ways mentioned above.  It is extremely easy and very fast to glue any sort and size of coated canvas to Gatorfoam, I'll never go back to stretching.
[/quote]


Bill how do you glue your canvas to the gatorboard?  Do you use glamour II or another product?

Thanks
Paul Caldwell
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namartinnz

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Breathing Color Canvas goes slack after stretching
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 12:01:50 am »

I now have this issue with Breathing Color Chromata going slack. At first I thought it was a one off, I had a customer call back saying a large three piece had ripples running throught it. My canvas prints are edge glued around the edges and back, and I've been using this technique for a few years with no issues.

I took it back and restretched it. At the same time I redid one of the prints after it got damaged pulling it off. With the new print I mounted it, and dropped the whole lot off. The customer then called back to say the one I'd redone had gone slack too! Anyway I fixed it up, only needing a 2mm or so adjustment. These were around 30 x 24 inch size, but I've noticed some 18 x 20 and A3 sizes do the same thing before delivery, and now a large 1800mm x 600mm is showing the same signs. These are stretched quite tight, then the slackening starts to appear. It's winter down in NZ and reasonably cold but this has never been an issue in previous years. I'm waiting to hear back from supplier and talk to him about this. I hope it's just something wrong I'm doing...what, I don't know...

Neal

Quick update - got a call back from my supplier - a good bloke to deal with. He reports no issues from the main printers whom use his rolls. I may well be looking at temperature/humidity issues in my house where I print/coat (Glamour II) and mount.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 12:26:53 am by namartinnz »
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