Printing Canvas and Glamour II

[sfblue]

Hi,  relatively new to printing on canvas-- using an Epson 7900.   Still experimenting with epson matte and satin, breathing color, and hahnemuhle.  

-Does matte canvas need a coating for longevity?   i.e. is Glamour II for cosmetic/finish reasons or is it necessary for protection and longevity.   Please let me know if you stretch your canvas untreated and if there are any problems with that.

Any other tips would be appreciated as well.

Thanks,

Dan

[bill t.]

Coatings probably help longevity.  They seal the ink layer against airborne contaminants, dust and so. My main motivation for coating is mainly that it enhances the look of the matte image, and in particular improves the perceived density and tonal separation especially in the shadows.  But coating also makes the moderately delicate canvas print extremely resistant to scratching, abrasion, most types of liguid.  I handle my coated canvas prints in ways I would never dream of handling a paper print.  One can in good faith offer unprotected canvas prints for display without glazing (as with glass of plastic) which is the best sort of naturally anti-reflective framing!  A properly GlamourII coated canvas can withstand vigorous wiping with a water-moistened cloth, but please don't clean with ammonia based solvents like Windex...although I have experimented with this and frankly it didn't seem to hurt anything, at least once.

Definitely stretch after you coat, best to stretch while the fresh coatings are still supple which means don't wait more than a few days after coating.  If the coatings are totally dry, you may get cracks at the creases.  For GlamourII, the best window for stretching a sprayed-on coating is 8 to 48 hours after the last coat, or maybe 24 to 48 hours for brushed-on or rolled-on coatings.  Sprayed-on coatings dry MUCH faster.

Best advice is to apply coatings with an HVLP gun, which you can buy one for as little $59.  All the coatings are just a little challenging to apply with a roller or brush, I used to destroy a lot of canvases before going to spraying.  There are a lot of threads here about applying canvas coatings.

Second best advice is...decide that you won't start getting good coating results until your third or fourth print (optimistic here) so practice on reject prints at first.

A peculiarity of GlamourII is that the Matte version forms precipates after standing for a while.  If you want to mix in some Matte with your Gloss to get Satin, be sure to stir the Matte very, very well, scraping the bottom of the tub.  With HVLP you can get just about any finish you want by spraying sparse, dry coats of gloss to get a matte or satin finish, or heavier, wetter coats of gloss to get a glossier finish.  I don't use Matte coating at all, just Gloss even though I wind up with a Satin-like result.  Gosh, I'm making it sound hard, but it really isn't, you just need to practice a little.  Oh, keep the gun very clean.

Edit...really important to dilute GlamourII with some water, it's way too thick as it comes out of the tub.  For brushing or rolling, try 1 part water to 2 parts GlamourII.  For spraying, your best dilution will be somewhere between 40:60 water:GII and 50:50 water:GII.  You will need to experiment for your particular tools.  The HVLP guns come with a little "viscosity cup" to help you get the proper paint thickness, but for all the canvas coatings you probably want a thinner solution than what the cup indicates.  And if you use an HVLP gun, keep it 8" away from the canvas, don't drift away, and use plenty of overlap.

[sfblue]

Thanks-- very helpful.    For now, I think I'm just going to use the matte coating on matte canvas.    I've tried a few small ones with the roller and it seems to have worked ok.   One large one I've done is a little uneven so I may have to resort to an HPLV spray gun like you suggest.   I read another thread on here that then recommends stepping up to the industrial strength spray guns (fuji?).   Ahhh, it's a slippery slope . . .

Great fun to be printing on canvas and I have just started to print on some fabric as well-- lots of trial and error but the suggestions here really help.

[bill t.]

Thanks-- very helpful.    For now, I think I'm just going to use the matte coating on matte canvas.

In a recent conversation a Breathing Color rep suggested never using GII Matte by itself.  Didn't say why.  Apparently only to be used in combination with Gloss to reduce the total amount of gloss.

I remember thinking early on that I wanted a very matte look on my canvases.  But honestly, a glossy finish on canvas can give you a gorgeous tonal range and a sense of brilliant lighting that is hard to match on papers, even glossy ones.  Not for every image, but for many.  And did I say Gloss Sells?  Go look at bunch of oil paintings, 8 out 10 will have a glossy varnish finish, uhoh, did I just compare inkjets canvases to oil paintings?  Yikes!

[Snook]

In a recent conversation a Breathing Color rep suggested never using GII Matte by itself.  Didn't say why.  Apparently only to be used in combination with Gloss to reduce the total amount of gloss.

I remember thinking early on that I wanted a very matte look on my canvases.  But honestly, a glossy finish on canvas can give you a gorgeous tonal range and a sense of brilliant lighting that is hard to match on papers, even glossy ones.  Not for every image, but for many.  And did I say Gloss Sells?  Go look at bunch of oil paintings, 8 out 10 will have a glossy varnish finish, uhoh, did I just compare inkjets canvases to oil paintings?  Yikes!

I have been told recently by my local printer that the spray for canvas is not necesary for HP Canvas Pro paper? I keep telling her I have seen in these forums how people say if you do not spray them the edges will start to crack. She says it has nevr happened to her Canvas and I have had 12 1 meter by 1.5 meter prints done recently and had them stretched. I strecthed them to round edge wood strecthers and I cannot see where they will start to crack.
Could she be right? Or am I going to regret not sprying a year or so down the line? Where I live it is very similar to california, pretty much 0% humidity all year round?

Thanks for any information or suggestions.
Thanks
Snook

[Paul2660]

One feature of Glamour II,  glossy, is that it will reactivate with heat.  I have found the same thing as billt reported with cracking on canvas that had been coated, but not stretched right away.  Quite by accident, I found that by gently heating the canvas, before you stretch, the Glamour II will get more pliable and stretch better.    I also cost my matte canvas with glamour II glossy for the same reasons as billt, it really gives the finished print a wonderful rich look.    You need to consider coating matte canvas just for handling purposes.  The ink (at least Epson 9880K3) will pick up oils and dirt very quickly.  

Paul Caldwell

[bill t.]

I have been told recently by my local printer that the spray for canvas is not necesary for HP Canvas Pro paper?

Get some samples.  Wipe with wet towels.  Wedge a piece between a short length of stretcher bar and the table top and slide it around like when you stretch a canvas.  Drag the pointy edge of a piece of furniture across the surface.  Sprinkle some dirt on the surface, then wipe that off with the towel.  Put a little hamburger grease on the surface and try to remove it.  And don't forget to give it the extreme crease test.  And if you're really feeling evil, pretend you're the dial-a-maid and "clean" the surface with some Windex.

[Clearair]

Get some samples.  Wipe with wet towels.  Wedge a piece between a short length of stretcher bar and the table top and slide it around like when you stretch a canvas.  Drag the pointy edge of a piece of furniture across the surface.  Sprinkle some dirt on the surface, then wipe that off with the towel.  Put a little hamburger grease on the surface and try to remove it.  And don't forget to give it the extreme crease test.  And if you're really feeling evil, pretend you're the dial-a-maid and "clean" the surface with some Windex.

Ok

If thats what you feel is realistic then put it behind glass.
What about some of the new canvas coming out that is semi/gloss? The manufacturers are saying that coating is not necessary.

[Snook]

Get some samples.  Wipe with wet towels.  Wedge a piece between a short length of stretcher bar and the table top and slide it around like when you stretch a canvas.  Drag the pointy edge of a piece of furniture across the surface.  Sprinkle some dirt on the surface, then wipe that off with the towel.  Put a little hamburger grease on the surface and try to remove it.  And don't forget to give it the extreme crease test.  And if you're really feeling evil, pretend you're the dial-a-maid and "clean" the surface with some Windex.

Sorry But the clientele I have and plan to sell to are not going to be touching the Canvas Prints with Hamburger fingers.
I have already made 15 1.5 meter X 1.05 meter prints and had them stretched.. No sign of cracking or where it might crack. Maybe it is a problem with epson canvas and inks?

I thought the cracking was from long term process, Not immediatley after stretching.
Could you be a little clearer?
Are you talking about cracking that comes from stretching?
Again my art will be framed and hung on a wall in luxurious houses. Not some cheesy family portrait on canvas that the kids with hamburger fingers will be touching.
Thanks anyhow
Snook

[bill t.]

If thats what you feel is realistic then put it behind glass.

But NO!     A well coated canvas can withstand all those tests.  For me the whole reason for using canvas is to save the image from prissy ritualistic internment in a glass sarcophagus and bring it out in the open where it can actually be seen without squinting, maneuvering one's head to avoid reflections, or even worse, resorting to Mu$eum Gla$$.  And let's not forget making the image really big, like it's supposed to be.

[bill t.]

Again my art will be framed and hung on a wall in luxurious houses. Not some cheesy family portrait on canvas that the kids with hamburger fingers will be touching.

Children of all social castes are born with greasy, inquisitive fingers that stay in that condition until at least the age of 20.  The rich have parties where greasy delights skewered on toothpicks and beverages in slippery glasses are circulated among people hovering near your artwork (same goes for gallery openings).  And the NY Times ran a story describing how the distressed rich are re-discovering junk food in the discreet privacy of those luxury houses.  In short don't count on the rich to protect your canvas any better than the hoi polloi.  

Cracking can happen at any time.  Would be nice if people would pitch in here with their delayed cracking stories which I know exist.

If cracking occurs or worries you put a frame around the canvas, end of problem.  If you want maximum return on the piece of art, put a frame around it before you even offer it!  Nice thing about mounted or stretched canvas, you can pop the art in or out of a frame with ease to suit every customer's whims.