Canon or Epson

[Jörg Hippo Thomsen]

Hi everybody!

I am new to this forum age format and a novice to large format printing (at least @home)

I am planing to buy either a 24" or 44" printer.

I will be printing mainly on:

1. Canvas (breathing color, chromata white)
2. Translucent self-adhesive vinyl (3M Scotchcal™ Graphic Film IJ3650-114 Transparent)
3. Textile Transfer Film.

Very high on the list of my preferences are:

a) Low cost of ownership.
 Easy maintenance, especially if the printer is not or only lightly used for weeks at a time.
c) Good drivers for Windows and Mac OS X making the most out of the printer even without a dedicated RIP.
d) Perfect printing from RGB files, best would be 16-bit.

Sooooooooooo, please, give me some quality advise

ps.: Do the Epson LFP emit the same gruesome high pitched noise like their desktop printers?

[jdoyle1713]

Jorg

well When choosing a printer you need to make sure taht the materials are compatible..

The Canvas will run fine on either machine..
The 3 M  Material Is Not Compatible and will NOT Run on these two machines..
Textile Transfer Film--?  Check with who makes it!


The second part of your question has been answered in many post throughout this board..

My Advise find the spec sheets for the products you want to use and than see what machines will run it..

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

[Jörg Hippo Thomsen]

Jorg

The 3 M  Material Is Not Compatible and will NOT Run on these two machines..
http://www.shadesofpaper.com

WHY?

According to 3M :

"Films IJ3650-10 (white) and IJ3650-114 (transparent) are piezo ink jet printable"

That should warrant compatibility with Epson and they might work with Canon as far as I can read from that...

Textile Transfer: http://en.poli-flex.de/_ssf-RBU6OK/pages/p..._printable.html
POLI-FLEX 4600 is dye and pigment compatible...

[Randy Carone]

Piezo heads can deliver Eco-solvent ink, such as the ink in the Epson GS6000. In addition, Roland, Mutoh and Mimaki employ Epson piezo head technology and Eco-sol inks. These inks can print on uncoated materials such as vehicle-wrap cast vinyl and uncoated banner, which is far less expensive than coated banner used for water-based inks. Epson's GS6000 also targets the Fine Art market and can print 1440 x 1440dpi on canvas, cotton rag, photobase papers, etc. The Epson has unique head technology; they always keep the latest head configuration for their state-of-art printers. Though the Roland, Mutoh and Mimaki are excellent printers, the GS6000 is a step ahead of the others.

Here is a link to the specs on the 3M film that specifies the printer compatibility. It also can be used on VUTek, Scitex', Océ Arizona UV curing inksets. Definitely not for water-based inks.
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserve...s6EVs6E666666--

BTW, there are several materials that will perform well with water-based pigment ink for fabric transfer applications. Specialty Materials offers this product. It is printed correct-reading and usually contour cut and placed face up on the garment and heat sealed to the fabric. Done properly, it can hold up to many washes, if this is the application you are after.

[Jörg Hippo Thomsen]

1.: Piezo heads can deliver Eco-solvent ink, such as the ink in the Epson GS6000. In addition, Roland, Mutoh and Mimaki employ Epson piezo head technology and Eco-sol inks. These inks can print on uncoated materials such as vehicle-wrap cast vinyl and uncoated banner, which is far less expensive than coated banner used for water-based inks. Epson's GS6000 also targets the Fine Art market and can print 1440 x 1440dpi on canvas, cotton rag, photobase papers, etc. The Epson has unique head technology; they always keep the latest head configuration for their state-of-art printers. Though the Roland, Mutoh and Mimaki are excellent printers, the GS6000 is a step ahead of the others.


2.: BTW, there are several materials that will perform well with water-based pigment ink for fabric transfer applications. Specialty Materials offers this product. It is printed correct-reading and usually contour cut and placed face up on the garment and heat sealed to the fabric. Done properly, it can hold up to many washes, if this is the application you are after.

Hi Randy!

1.: THANK YOU for the detailed info. NOW I understand Jim's reply, too

2.: That is indeed one of the intended applications. Can you recommend anything in particular?
My other primary application needs printing on a clear self adhesive film of some kind, though...
Any media recomendations for this?!? Or a clear film + a double sideded adhesive film or ...

I am eager for any input.

Hippo

[Roscolo]

Hi everybody!

I am new to this forum age format and a novice to large format printing (at least @home)

I am planing to buy either a 24" or 44" printer.


Very high on the list of my preferences are:

a) Low cost of ownership.
 Easy maintenance, especially if the printer is not or only lightly used for weeks at a time.
c) Good drivers for Windows and Mac OS X making the most out of the printer even without a dedicated RIP.
d) Perfect printing from RGB files, best would be 16-bit.

I would take a long look at HP z3100 or z3200. I sometimes don't print on my z3100 for 3-4 weeks. Never a problem. Not one clog in 2 years. Good luck trying that with an Epson. Very low cost of ownership. Ink is reasonable and this printer simply does not waste ink. Can't speak for the Canon as I haven't used any. Good luck.

[Jörg Hippo Thomsen]

I would take a long look at HP z3100 or z3200. I sometimes don't print on my z3100 for 3-4 weeks. Never a problem. Not one clog in 2 years. Good luck trying that with an Epson. Very low cost of ownership. Ink is reasonable and this printer simply does not waste ink. Can't speak for the Canon as I haven't used any. Good luck.

I did look at he HPs. Worked with a Z3100PS for a year at an arcitectural firm.
Print Quality is excellent.

Driver is abysmal. (try printing a multi page pdf from windows...)
Paper handling is inacceptable.

Generally speaking: NO GO.

[JeffKohn]

Having owned an Epson 2400 and a Canon ipf5000, I would say that the Canons are much better than Epsons about clogging, although I can't say how they compare to HP since I've not used the z-series. My printing tends to be sporadic, I may go a few months without printing anything at all and then print a lot at once. The Espon will usually have clogs even after the first automatic cleaning if it has been setting for long time (and I'm in Houston, so low humidity is not the issue, even in winter). I've had it take several forced cleanings to clear up clogs, and with those tiny ink cartridges in the 2400 it ends up being a lot of wasted money. The Canon will do an automatic cleaning the first time it's powered on after long inactivity, but I've never had any clogs that required additional manual cleanings.

[Roscolo]

I did look at he HPs. Worked with a Z3100PS for a year at an arcitectural firm.
Print Quality is excellent.

Driver is abysmal. (try printing a multi page pdf from windows...)
Paper handling is inacceptable.

The z3100 is marketed to pro photogs. I don't know many photogs printing multi-page PDF's. I virtually never print PDF's.

I've had no issues with paper handling.  But as I'm using the 44" model, I'm virtually always loading rolls. No problems with photo papers, canvas, adhesive vinyl, Innova watercolor papers. Loading sheets is easy but one must remember to disable the "skew check" on the printer. YMMV

[Ernst Dinkla]

The z3100 is marketed to pro photogs. I don't know many photogs printing multi-page PDF's. I virtually never print PDF's.

I've had no issues with paper handling.  But as I'm using the 44" model, I'm virtually always loading rolls. No problems with photo papers, canvas, adhesive vinyl, Innova watercolor papers. Loading sheets is easy but one must remember to disable the "skew check" on the printer. YMMV

The PS version interpretes PDF files and prints them. If you want to load sheets per page it takes a lot of time that doubles with dual sided printing. But there are ways to do it (printing from roll, printer cut, other side printed as sheets, skew check off, custom registering tabs at the front) and part of that is how you split the pages before printing. The usual Postscript problems like color management when SWOP is assigned, what fonts are available, are not different to other Postscript solutions.

With an Adobe application available like Acrobat or Photoshop the normal Z3100 can do the same and you will have the same issues to deal with.

It is a roll printer in the first place so keep it in that role as much as possible.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[Jörg Hippo Thomsen]

The issue is: If I spent in excess of 7000$ CDN on a printer, I expect it to work flawlessly. I often need to print multi page files for presentations, let's say a dozen A1 posters layoutet with InDesign. I cannot afford to waist time & money on an HP that does NOT perform exactly as expected when doing this. I am aware, that sheet loading is NOT the primary domain of any of these large format printers, but it should not be unbelievable awkward. For these reasons I will stay clear of the HP printers and that's why I did not even mention them starting this thread.

From other work experiences I do know, that Epsons used to be very much prone to clogging and I was hoping, I would hear different things about the current generation...

If anybody has recemondations concerning print media, I am open to input 24/7...

[Shirley Bracken]

Jim, thank you very much for that Iink!  Just what I needed.

[nemophoto]

I've owned Epson printers for years, including the 1160, 1200, 2100, 3000, 4000 and 7000. Last summer, I nervously decided to buy the Canon iPF 6100. Hands down, it's the easiest, most consistent printer I've owned. I have far fewer "trash can" prints. The B&W mode (whether sent as grayscale or RGB) is superbly neutral. I've never experienced a clog (knock on lots of wood) and this is after leaving it both on or off for weeks at a time without printing something. It is parsimonious in it's use of ink.

My personal suggestion: go with the Canon -- it almost prints by itself.

[Jörg Hippo Thomsen]

I seem to have located a media that will solve one of my problems:

Oce ACFLM04 [DP] 4.4mil Pressure Sensitive PSA Clear Film

Does anybody have any experience with this stuff?