C1 4.7 and the mac

[eronald]

How many machines are we supposed to run?
Printing is unstable depending on the OS version, PS has been known to go unstable, C1 has its own issues; it would seem that he only working strategy would be to use Virtual Applicances with OS versions that are certified to work with each app- oh, wait that's exactly what datacenters do.

Edmund

The problem is because the functionality depends on hardware, firmware, the operating system / drivers it can be hard to gauge when a version is stable. Often the more stable a version, the more people elect to try it out and therefore by definition the more people will report problems.

Add to this the fact that Capture One can misbehave if you install "over" the previous version rather than removing and installing cleanly. Then add on top of that the niche nature which makes it hard to just "google" an answer to a question you have (google is and always will be the best user manual for any software which is highly popular - compare how long it takes to find a keyboard shortcut in Photoshop, the meaning of a setting in OSX, or a formula usage in Excel in google compared to it's user manual). I spend 24/7 living this stuff and it can be hard to keep my user's informed.

JR has it absolutely right that when it comes to tethering you pick a setup, tune it in, test the hell out of it, and then freeze it until there is a compelling reason to upgrade. That last part is relative of course; to me there are at least a dozen compelling reasons to upgrade your workflow to 4.7, but like ANY switch in your tethered workflow it is not fast/easy to do so correctly (with testing and proper practice).

As far as stability I think 4.7 is doing pretty great (image rotation aside). The number and magnitude of problems you see reported on this forum are actually a really poor way to judge the quality/stability of a particular version. Trust me; I take and make dozens of calls each week on this specific issue. I'm not saying 4.7 is completely free of problems (what software is?) nor am I denying that the Snook and others are having problems but rather saying that their problems are not jiving with my customers with whom I have more direct interaction.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
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[gwhitf]

I am all for Phase upgrading their software and 3.7 had some flaws, especialy the brittle previews, but it was also rock solid and rock solid pays the bills.

Phase will get it right, Leaf got LC11 right, I'm sure Hasselblad will someday have a file that works in all processors and gets it right, but until then we have to use what works, not what is going to work or not what needs a class to learn.

Fuzzy moire ridden previews or not, let's be realistic, 3.7 was always like that and about 10 billiion photographs were shot into that software.  Let's also be realistic that during the 3.7 days, no Phase dealer mentioned the negatives, they talked the positives.

It's only since 4. whatever is out that we hear how bad 3.7 was.

Remember how long it took to get your head around Capture One at all? It seemed like the most foreign software ever designed, (even if you lived in Denmark). This was back in early 3's. Then one day, after throwing the software away off the hard drive for the fifth time, something happened and you installed it the sixth time, and the light bulb went off, and everything made sense. But My God, it took forever for that light bulb. At least for me. The same will be true for version 4 -- my prediction is that long about June of 2011, there will be tons of posts here about how great 4.7 is (or was), (and how bad 3 sucked). But it will take that long, and Doug has got to defend it til that time.

I took the class on 4, and in the class everything seemed logical, then as soon as we hung up the phone, swear to God, the program starting crashing, and I said Screw It, and threw it away and went back to 3.79. Rock solid. You just explain away the moire and the christmas-tree Previews to the client. You can explain away nasty Previews a lot easier than crashing and frantic restarting.

But yes, Phase will get it right, (long about the time that the entire print industry is dead, and everyone is shooting video).

But you are right, that is the problem with all this mess -- when 3 is the only version, then you don't hear anything negative about 3. But as soon as 4 hits the street in final form, then instantly, "3 sucks, with the shitty Previews, etc etc", and 4 is the Cat's Meow, (but you never hear of it crashing on set). Yeah, right.

My other personal resentment is having to switch retouching machines, (g5 tower). My current one, (PowerPC), is set up full of RAM, with XServe Fibre Card, and full of hard drives. Everything works, everything smooth as silk. And of course, damn near nothing in the PowerPC g5 will work in the Intel G5 tower, so I'm looking at many thousands of dollars to upgrade, just to be able to install CaptureOne 4.7, and leave 3.79. At one point, it was kinda fun upgrading machines, but then one day, it just became a hassle, once the newness of all this mess wore off.

Personally, I can't imagine a better software to use than 3.79, in both tether mode, and in process mode. But I'm sure, one day, the Light Bulb will finally go off for 4.7, and 2011 will be a good year.

[James R Russell]

Remember how long it took to get your head around Capture One at all? It seemed like the most foreign software ever designed, (even if you lived in Denmark). This was back in early 3's. Then one day, after throwing the software away off the hard drive for the fifth time, something happened and you installed it the sixth time, and the light bulb went off, and everything made sense. But My God, it took forever for that light bulb. At least for me. The same will be true for version 4 -- my prediction is that long about June of 2011, there will be tons of posts here about how great 4.7 is (or was), (and how bad 3 sucked). But it will take that long, and Doug has got to defend it til that time.

I took the class on 4, and in the class everything seemed logical, then as soon as we hung up the phone, swear to God, the program starting crashing, and I said Screw It, and threw it away and went back to 3.79. Rock solid. You just explain away the moire and the christmas-tree Previews to the client. You can explain away nasty Previews a lot easier than crashing and frantic restarting.

But yes, Phase will get it right, (long about the time that the entire print industry is dead, and everyone is shooting video).

But you are right, that is the problem with all this mess -- when 3 is the only version, then you don't hear anything negative about 3. But as soon as 4 hits the street in final form, then instantly, "3 sucks, with the shitty Previews, etc etc", and 4 is the Cat's Meow, (but you never hear of it crashing on set). Yeah, right.

My other personal resentment is having to switch retouching machines, (g5 tower). My current one, (PowerPC), is set up full of RAM, with XServe Fibre Card, and full of hard drives. Everything works, everything smooth as silk. And of course, damn near nothing in the PowerPC g5 will work in the Intel G5 tower, so I'm looking at many thousands of dollars to upgrade, just to be able to install CaptureOne 4.7, and leave 3.79. At one point, it was kinda fun upgrading machines, but then one day, it just became a hassle, once the newness of all this mess wore off.

Personally, I can't imagine a better software to use than 3.79, in both tether mode, and in process mode. But I'm sure, one day, the Light Bulb will finally go off for 4.7, and 2011 will be a good year.

There seems to be three types of photographers on this forum (I'm sure many more).  First is the low volume photographer that shoots a few dozen or even hundred shots a day.  Those guys can use any software as long as it looks good and works 90% of the time.  I'm sure those guys love 4.7.  Second is the amateur.  They dig big files, they dig new software, they dig the equipment and thank god for them because without the amateur base, all cameras would cost a billion dollars.

Third is the commercial/editorial photogapher with a lot of volume and a lot on the line on every shoot.  One bad day usually means one costly day, long or short term.

The world has changed.  This has always been a no excuse business, but today, there are more demands, more time in pre and post production than actual shooting.  Actually post production can take weeks . . . on a large shoot even a month by the time compositing and final retouch is delivered.

Personally, I think version 3 was the goofiest software ever made and it did take a learning curve.  It also was solid.  You could make sessions before hand, switch back and forth and once you set it up you didn't need a tech manning the machine.  If you shot over 400 files to a session yoiu might crash, but you could just start it in seconds and keep shooting like nothing happened.  I think I've only had one or two times where it took more than a fast restart of the software.

Processing was fast, settings were fast and I've dropped 2000 files into one folder, set a new processing session and started batching jpegs.  If it stalled or crashed it would pick right up where you left off, never a drop never a lost frame.

Phase had two things going for them.  The backs are dead solid tough as nails, the software was dead solid stable, the workflow compared to others was a dream.  If I could have used 3.7 for my Aptus I'd still own it.  

Phase also got real wise real fast and like Leaf made a file that would work in any third party software, which is a very smart move considering how many files go to outside retouchers.

Other than that most of these digital backs are the same.

Let's face it the Phase is pretty much a 1984 industrial design, the lcd is the worst of the mfd back lot, the camera they have alligned themselves with is not the most exciting camera ever made, in fact it's obvious they got a good deal and someday might make it the equal of the blad or the HY6 . . . time will tell.

The point is you didn't buy a Phase for the superior image quality/film like look, or the big lcd, or the integrated camera to back system.  You bought a phase because for a working photogrpaher it was stable, solid and bulletproof.

Version 4 may be getting better.  I don't know because I stopped at upgrade 2 or something like that.  Once i heard the software ate Canon files I hit the brakes and thought I'd let somebody else beta test this stuff.

Doug may be right that Snook is th exceptiion, but I bet Snook doesn't see it that way.  Doug may be right that 4.7 is the best, software ever and may know it front to back, but I'll make the same offer to Doug that I made to Leaf, Canon, Nikon and the Phase people.

Don't come on set, drink wine, hang out with the models and "enjoy" the glory of the shoot.   Come into a hotel room with us at 9pm where we have 1150 files under all kinds of lighting conditions and start batch processing jpegs that MUST be out at 6am because you have a 6:15 am call time to be back on location.

Come with us on one of those location days where we move a crew of 20 to three locations in a congested city like Hong Kong, or San Francisco, the first assistant trashes the primary computer and you have to go to the backup.

Those are the days the real rubber meets the tarmac and those are the situations where you will absolutley know that your software is ready for prime time advertising or part time play.

Will 4. whatever be the best . . . maybe and someday I might find out, but until I get an e-mail signed in blood from Doug or Phase One that says "as of today our software never crashes, never glitches and never looses the settings" will be the day I might sign up for one of the phase classes.

JRR

[mcfoto]

Hi
This last shoot was not easy, should have been a 4-5 day shoot but the budget only allowed for 3 days. We are still editing & start post tomorrow that will take 6 days for the first two ads, maybe in 2-3 weeks we will be finished. I have heard 4.8 is coming but I really think this is a Mac thing even our PS CS3 is buggy with the latest OS 10.5.6. My partner Gay is very happy with C1 4.7, she finds it easy to use.
Denis

[BernardLanguillier]

As far as stability I think 4.7 is doing pretty great (image rotation aside). The number and magnitude of problems you see reported on this forum are actually a really poor way to judge the quality/stability of a particular version. Trust me; I take and make dozens of calls each week on this specific issue. I'm not saying 4.7 is completely free of problems (what software is?) nor am I denying that the Snook and others are having problems but rather saying that their problems are not jiving with my customers with whom I have more direct interaction.

Doug,

It could be related to my double monitor set-up, but C1 4.7 is by far the least stable application installed on my Mac Pro. I have tried re-insalling and all... no difference. I am getting one abend with it every 5-10 minutes... only doing basic image zooming/manipulations (no tethered shooting and no rotations). Zooming to 5 images in a row in the viewer window is often enough to generate an abend or out of mem error...

I have tried to look for 4.6.3 but could find any place where it could be downloaded from (the phase sites only has 4.6.2), would you happen to know where it can be downloaded from?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Carsten W]

Doug,

It could be related to my double monitor set-up, but C1 4.7 is by far the least stable application installed on my Mac Pro. I have tried re-insalling and all... no difference. I am getting one abend with it every 5-10 minutes... only doing basic image zooming/manipulations (no tethered shooting and no rotations). Zooming to 5 images in a row in the viewer window is often enough to generate an abend or out of mem error...

I have tried to look for 4.6.3 but could find any place where it could be downloaded from (the phase sites only has 4.6.2), would you happen to know where it can be downloaded from?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

If you open the Console application just after something goes wrong, do you see anything in the log?

[BernardLanguillier]

If you open the Console application just after something goes wrong, do you see anything in the log?

Yep... many things like...

4/26/09 10:32:14 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] Capture One(586,0xa048e720) malloc: *** mmap(size=331776) failed (error code=12)
4/26/09 10:32:14 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] *** error: can't allocate region
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] *** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug

then

4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] Capture One(586,0xb0d7a000) malloc: *** mmap(size=14536704) failed (error code=12)
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] *** error: can't allocate region
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] *** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 21:30:56> System ready
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:14> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:14> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:14> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:14> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:14> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:14> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:14> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:14> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:15> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:15> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:15> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:15> (ERROR) Exception in CTileExecuter::lowLevelExecute, current operation=[NoiseSuppression], step=10
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM CrashReporter[1186] Capture One terminated unexpectedly - preparing report
4/26/09 10:32:15 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586] 2009-04-26 22:32:15.256 CrashReporter[1186:30b] Capture One terminated unexpectedly - preparing report
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserNotificationCenter[1188]) Exited: Terminated
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserNotificationCenter) Throttling respawn: Will start in 10 seconds
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM com.apple.launchd[182] ([0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586]) Stray process with PGID equal to this dead job: PID 587 PPID 1 ImgCoreProcess
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM com.apple.launchd[182] ([0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone[586]) Exited abnormally: Abort trap
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone arg 0: 45888 ""
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone Initialized
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone 2009-04-26 21:30:56> System ready
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone 2009-04-26 22:32:18> Connection failed.
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone 2009-04-26 22:32:18> Exiting
4/26/09 10:32:18 PM [0x0-0x4c04c].com.phaseone.captureone 2009-04-26 22:32:18> Shutting down
4/26/09 10:32:28 PM com.apple.launchd[1] (com.apple.UserNotificationCenter[1194]) Exited: Terminated

Cheers,
Bernard

[Carsten W]

Looks like a memory problem while rendering a tile, or something like that. In other words, there is nothing you can do; it is a bug.

Do you get that Mac OS X popup crash reporter when it crashes? If so, you can go to the Details tab (I think) and see the callstack of the crash. This would be a very useful thing for the C1 developers to see.

[BernardLanguillier]

Looks like a memory problem while rendering a tile, or something like that. In other words, there is nothing you can do; it is a bug.

Do you get that Mac OS X popup crash reporter when it crashes? If so, you can go to the Details tab (I think) and see the callstack of the crash. This would be a very useful thing for the C1 developers to see.

Yep, I must have sent at least 15 of these crashes report already...

Cheers,
Bernard

[Carsten W]

Yep, I must have sent at least 15 of these crashes report already...

Cheers,
Bernard

They go to Apple. Cut-n-Paste the callstack to Phase One.

[Snook]

Yep, I must have sent at least 15 of these crashes report already...

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard I take it your on OSX also, right.
On my MACPRO it works pretty smooth, no extensive testing yet but so far.
On The MBP it is USELESS. Crashes constantly and beachball every little adjustment.... what a shame.

4.8 someone said.. why not 4.7.1 first...:+}  
 I think Phase is really trying something they are not able to do...
They are trying to make 3.7 like Aperture or Lightroom which is a Big step and not sure worth it if they keep losing photographers in the process. Add that to them losing lot's of photographers to Canon and Nikon and the end result could be disaster.

I would put my self in the Commercial/Editorial ranking of James and it is not good. For the last couple of months I have been shoting a lot of Catalogue so I use the 1DsMII which is a no brainer and I shoot to Cards and one of my assistants down loads after ever image and model change.
That is a no brainer for catalogue work. Never tethered, no reason to.
But my Advertising work is usually P30 tethered.

Just did a test the other day with 4.7 tethered 10.5.6 with P30 RZIIPROD and it was CRAP!.
Trying to edit the images in my MBP was a disater and useless.. Moved everything over to the MP and much better...
Will have to some how go back to 4.6.3 on the laptop as it was fine from what I remember, there have been so many damn updates since 4.5 it can make your head spin..

A Big mistake Phase is making  and myself...:+} Is they are using us as BETA testers which is not good!
Don't know how I forgave them for the Canon cr2 corruption that killed all images on the computer, Luckily I discovered it after one image and was able to reshootit right away..

That was a BIG mistake that Phase One wiggled out of and never even offered a public apology!!!

Last time I change software until garanteed solid on all machines..

Not sure if I can, bernard I have a copy of every C-1 program out. email me and I could send it to you if Phase won't send you a link. Don't see the problem as they have caused so much greif to us as BETA testers.

If they have a problem just e-mail me...:+]

Snook

 PS. Have a week or 2 of catalogue coming up, that will give me time to re-install all back to 4.6.3 which worked for me pretty well.

Bernard are you on Laptop or Desktop??

Like I said the Laptop has been the main disaster and I do not see how an unistall of preference files are going to help that.. But will just go back to 4.6.3 until then

[G_Allen]

If 4.7 isn't running well on one system, it is a installation/configuration issue and can't be blamed on Phase. I would recommend you to uninstall 4.7 as per Capture Integration's instructions, and then do a clean install.  

I've been shooting tethered to my MBP with my P30+ with zero issues. I've found 4.7 has corrected a few annoying bugs with file naming, and has been very solid overall.

[selsoe]

They go to Apple. Cut-n-Paste the callstack to Phase One.

The crash report says "Send to Phase One" - it goes to Phase One.

[Carsten W]

The crash report says "Send to Phase One" - it goes to Phase One.

? Interesting. I suppose that is an option for Apple developers then. Odd. All that I have ever seen have gone to Apple.

[BernardLanguillier]

If 4.7 isn't running well on one system, it is a installation/configuration issue and can't be blamed on Phase. I would recommend you to uninstall 4.7 as per Capture Integration's instructions, and then do a clean install.

How do you explain the fact that 4.6.3 was working perfectly? I would have gone back to it already had it been availbale on the phaseone download section.

I did try to remove the Captureone.app file from the Application folder and re-downloaded/re-installed it (Phaseone doesn't propose a clean un-install application for OSX)... no change.

The fact that you have no problem on your set-up doesn't mean that all other set ups are working fine.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Guy Mancuso]

If 4.7 isn't running well on one system, it is a installation/configuration issue and can't be blamed on Phase. I would recommend you to uninstall 4.7 as per Capture Integration's instructions, and then do a clean install.  

I've been shooting tethered to my MBP with my P30+ with zero issues. I've found 4.7 has corrected a few annoying bugs with file naming, and has been very solid overall.

 I have to say I have the same results , no issues but I am also relentless on keeping my system clean. The key is like Adobe , C1 is in several places and you really need to make sure you clean it out before installing it and make sure every C1 file is gone first. Once that has been done the last two versions I was able to load on top of the previous. But going back awhile I did not clean the system and it caused issues. Many places files are residing and most folks my bet is they are not cleaning it out under there user folder but just the library and applications. You need to dig around ALL over the place.

[Henry Goh]

I too can confirm that I have zero issues with C1 Pro V4.7 on both Mac OSX10.5.6 and Win XP SP3.  I shoot tethered with P30+, 1Ds MKIII and 5D.  I'm also fussy about keeping registry clean and making sure I remove older unwanted software.

[BernardLanguillier]

I have to say I have the same results , no issues but I am also relentless on keeping my system clean. The key is like Adobe , C1 is in several places and you really need to make sure you clean it out before installing it and make sure every C1 file is gone first. Once that has been done the last two versions I was able to load on top of the previous. But going back awhile I did not clean the system and it caused issues. Many places files are residing and most folks my bet is they are not cleaning it out under there user folder but just the library and applications. You need to dig around ALL over the place.

Could be... that's why many software providers come up with an un-install utility that knows where to look...

Cheers,
Bernard

[ctz]

Hope this help:
http://www.phaseone.com/Content/Support/Ar...mp;languageid=1

CO IS rock solid on my 2007 MacPro and my MacBook (non Pro), shooting 200 to 6-800 captures per session (P45 or 5DM2).
Never had a problem since 4.5 early days.

Could be... that's why many software providers come up with an un-install utility that knows where to look...

Cheers,
Bernard

[eronald]

I believe that CO has received substantial investment from Microsoft. It's possible that MS wants a photo app out there to compete with Lightroom ad Aperture, and need Raw code for Windows, and that customer satisfaction from DB owners (like the few hundred on this forum) is actually secondary as the happiness of big brother comes first. It's pretty clear that a $150 Raw app relabelled Microsoft Capture One is going to outsell DBs, especially if some freebies like Expression get thrown into the package.

Edmund