Shift Lens or Shift Camera

[cjmonty]

I've been trying to find an optimal shifting set-up for my P45, and would love to hear about anyone else's experiences and preferences.

In my experience, the P45 gets lens cast from both shift lenses and shifting camera bodies, so the white plexi calibrating plate seems a must no matter how you go.

I have been using a nice and sharp Mamiya 645 MF 50mm f/4 shift lens on my Phamiya 654AFD.  Up against the AF 45mm/2.8 prime lens (at f/8) the older shift lens is a tiny bit softer than the newer AF, but its very close.  The detail on the 50 tays pretty constant at the corners whether unshifted or near-full shift.

The difference between the AF and the shift lens is so minute, that I usually go with the 50mm- I really find it pays to compose in-camera, but thats just me.  Its sad to lose that last 1% or so of detail, to allow my 39M back to capture its potential, but I take it as a worthwhile sacrifice.

My question is- would I gain much more optical quality using the a Schneider 47mm on a Alpa SWA or Cambo WRS?

Does anyone had a chance to put the old and reliable Mamiya 50mm shift up against a LF lens on a "plate" camera?

Many thanks,
C

[michaelnotar]

i shoot mamiya 645 AFD2 too with a P25 and a cambo wds w/a 24mm and 35mm digital series. they are much much better than the mamiya which are really good and i am happy with. i have the mamiya 55mm, 80, 150. i had a manual focus 110mm that produced good images for the M645, so it is possible but not as likely. i would reccomend the new digital series lenses. they are amazing. i finally found what i am looking for in digital photography, high res back and IQ that is near perfect. the lenses had no CA in my experiences, corner to corner razor sharpness and no fall off due to graduated center ND filter.

i think the wds was $4500 new with a lens and the 24mm was $2800 used (about 2/3 new price). for the P45, you may want to look at the rodenstock HR lenses for higher IQ. but they are much more pricey, like the cheapest one is $2-3000. but they have a 23mm that has a huge IC vs. the 24mm that has no movements, but the 23mm is like $10k. i think there is a 60mm HR in your range, then it goes to a 35mm i think.

[cjmonty]

Very helpful- thanks!
Anyone tried the Schneider 47mm?- it sounds like it may not be as sharp as the newer digital lenses.  
I guess Im wondering whether it pays to move to the cheaper 47mm, or would it really only be worth it to go from Mamiya to Rodenstock HR for a noticeable quality increase.

[Doug Peterson]

My question is- would I gain much more optical quality using the a Schneider 47mm on a Alpa SWA or Cambo WRS?

Does anyone had a chance to put the old and reliable Mamiya 50mm shift up against a LF lens on a "plate" camera?

Yes I've shot both although not directly side-by-side. It will surprise no one who has used a plate camera with a good LF lens that the LF lens wins hands down (in this case a Schneider 47).

Very helpful- thanks!
Anyone tried the Schneider 47mm?- it sounds like it may not be as sharp as the newer digital lenses.  
I guess Im wondering whether it pays to move to the cheaper 47mm, or would it really only be worth it to go from Mamiya to Rodenstock HR for a noticeable quality increase.

....? Not from my experience. The 35mm f/5.6 Schneider Apo-Digitar XL and 47mm f/5.6 Schneider Apo-Digitar XL Lens are both fantastic lenses. In fact I find it very difficult to imagine that you could find a lens which was meaningfully sharper than the Schneider 47mm XL on a P45.

Jeff Totaro reported to me that he found Alpa had slightly less flare issues in tough lighting situations than the Cambo Wide that he tried. He attributed it to a slightly darker/less-reflective black used on the Alpa body. However, this is a very minor point. The general point is that the optical quality of any particular LF lens is identical on an Alpa, Silvestri, Cambo, Horseman, Sinar, or otherwise.

By the way, we're a dealer for most of the tech cameras and lenses and have a fantastic deal on a demo Cambo. A tech camera is a great thing to buy a dealer demo of since it's a "dumb" piece of metal with some gearing.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[Dick Roadnight]

...the LF lens wins hands down (in this case a Schneider 47).

....? Not from my experience. The Schneider 35mm XL and Schneider 47mm XL are both fantastic lenses. In fact I find it very difficult to imagine that you could find a lens which was meaningfully sharper than the Schneider 47mm XL on a P45.

I have ordered a standard P3 lensboard for my Schneider 47XL, thinking that (with stitching) it would give me more of everything than the digital short lenses... I have ordered a tapered P2 to P3 bellows, but this would not allow me to use it on a P2 standard, as I would need a converter bag bellows...  I will probably have to make a special lensboard to us it on a P3 with a sliding back... I have ordered a P3 wide angle bellows.

[michaelnotar]

do doug-

are you saying the 47mm film lens is great for digital...?

[Doug Peterson]

do doug-

are you saying the 47mm film lens is great for digital...?

Sorry for any confusion.

The Schneider 47mm f5.6 XL Apo-Digitar lens is better than great for digital. My experience coming from using it with a P45+ and a CWRS.

If the OP is referring to a previous generation then I have no experience.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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[cjmonty]

thanks,
Have you had any feedback on the Cambo WRS vs WDS yet?

[cjmonty]

Here are some 100% crops from a test I did a while back with a rented Mamiya 50mm shift lens and my 45mm/2.8 AF.  Each lens has an example of the center, and then the same object (a bus) recomposed to the top right of the view.

Notice the slight fall off in sharpness from the 45 to the 50, and the further degredation with the top right image with extreme shift.

Also, there's that good ol' lens cast on the final two.  None of there received any post work, diligent raw processing, or sharpening, but they all were processed together.

[Doug Peterson]

thanks,
Have you had any feedback on the Cambo WRS vs WDS yet?

We (or many other capable dealers) could show you both in person or rent you both remotely.

http://www.captureintegration.com/solution...al-view-camera/

Both systems use the same lens panels. Both systems have metered movements and detents at zeros for repeatability.

Here is an incomplete list of differences:

RS
- smaller (more compact)
- self arresting movement (no locking/unlocking)
- new leveling base
- lens panel is locked down by TWO locks rather than one
- all movements on the rear (no parallax error when stitching with rise/fall***)

DS
- less expensive
- rosewood handle
- higher maximum rise/fall*
- some think the knobs are easier to use with gloves

*only useful if your lens has enough coverage to support such movements
**I personally feel this means slightly more stability against pivoting and reduces the chance of accidently releasing the lens, but I've not noticed the single-lock system being a problem on the DS so the advantage is minimal
***this is usually not a problem on the DS, but in certain situations (fore ground objects spanning the gap) it can create problems


Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up