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Author Topic: Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?  (Read 8879 times)

guyharrison

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« on: April 17, 2009, 04:51:13 pm »

Hi,

I am a new member and have been learning a huge amount as I contemplate a breathlessly awaited, expensive, and daunting purchase of a MFDB for my Contax system.  I demoed a p45+ (many thanks to the outstanding people at Capture Integration) and that looks like the one for me as I am a landscaper and want the long exposure times.  Just need the lotto numbers . . . .

However, on the topic at hand, as I get a little older, and having seen the incredible focus precision necessary on these new backs, I would like to put a brighter focusing screen in my Contax.  I have seen references to three:

1.  Beattie

2.  Brightscreen

3.  Maxwell Precision Optics

Has the forum had experience with these and how have they worked out?  Is it a worthwhile investment?  I shoot routinely at small apertures (f22 - 45) and checking depth of field is very difficult.

Beattie and Brightscreen have websites but I have not found anything for Maxwell.

Any feedback would be welcome, as they are not cheap!  Also, if you know the winning lotto #s. . .

Thanks,

Guy Harrison
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Carsten W

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 05:10:09 pm »

I haven't tried a Brightscreen for my Contax, but the one I had for my 5D left me wanting... I have heard only raves about Maxwell, and once I decide to purchase a screen for my Contax, that is where it is going to come from. One must make a call to him though...
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tho_mas

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 05:40:02 pm »

Quote from: guyharrison
having seen the incredible focus precision necessary on these new backs, I would like to put a brighter focusing screen in my Contax.
I use a "Brightscreen" split image with microprism collar in my Contax. It's slightly brighter than the original Contax MFS-2 but not really as it needs some density to check depth of field.
But I didn't choose it because of brightness but to focus manually accurately. I do not rely on AF (though not bad in the Contax) as the measure field is too big in certain situations and above all AF often fails at distances slightly ahead infinity. Not that critical on film but it is with the P45. For example: shooting with the 2.0/80mm a distance of 45 meters the Contax AF set the lens to infinity (always)... but it is not infinity, it's slightly ahead. And you definitely see the difference. With the split image screen and esp. with the waist level finder (with higher magnification) you will see the difference very well in the finder. Too, if you use AF and watch the focus indication in the finder you will see that it confirms correct focus for a certain range, not for a precise spot. With split image you can nail the spot precisely.
A good thing with the Contax is that you can adjust the screen accurately to the film plane of the DB as you can mount or unmount shims under the screen mounting (the shims are 0.1mm [silver] and 0.3mm [golden] I guess). This works perfectly together with the split image as the Contax lenses are really great to focus manually (even my 2.8/45mm that is already a bit lose). For adjustment you should use the widest lens first; the 3.5/35 if you have one and if the screen is adjusted to it afterwards check the longer lenses.
I have a split image screen even im my small APS-C DSLR and I can't imagine to shoot without anymore.

Quote from: guyharrison
I shoot routinely at small apertures (f22 - 45) and checking depth of field is very difficult.
You have to rethink this as this is a receipt for soft images. Due to the 6.8micron pixels of the P45 diffraction starts at smaller apertures than f8. f11 is still perfect. At f16 you will clearly see some diffraction but from my point of view depending on the subject it is usable very good.


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guyharrison

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 06:14:05 pm »

Thomas,


[quote name='tho_mas' date='Apr 17 2009, 05:40 PM' post='277157']
I use a "Brightscreen" split image with microprism collar in my Contax. It's slightly brighter than the original Contax MFS-2 but not really as it needs some density to check depth of field.
But I didn't choose it because of brightness but to focus manually]  

One reason for the brighter screen is so I can be able to more reliably tell when I do not need to go to f22 or lower.  I had not considered the split image issue for critical focus and that is a very good idea.  I see there will be a lot of technique improvement needed with the DB -- this was confirmed by my demo where focus that looked good in the finder was, on magnification, slightly and noticeably off.  The split screem might be a good tool for me.


[Quote  You have to rethink this as this is a receipt for soft images. Due to the 6.8micron pixels of the P45 diffraction starts at smaller apertures than f8. f11 is still perfect. At f16 you will clearly see some diffraction but from my point of view depending on the subject it is usable very good.  Quote]


As for the small apertures, I know what happens even on film (I use very high-res film Velvia 100) but I still use them and would like to explain why, because I see many references to never using small apertures almost as if was a rule.

I'll start with this -- even at small apertures the lenses deliver high quality even though I agree they are noticeably softer than the optimum aperture.  With my landscape work, I find depth of field far more important to the emotion of an image than critical sharpmess -- I often use very wide apertures as well for selective focus.

As for small apertures, I have found that an image which carries uniform sharpness front-to-back due to the small aperture (yes, even if softer overall than the optimum aperture could give) can be a much more powerful statement than one that is is critically sharp but has distracting obviously out-of-focus background areas.  An example, a wide angle shot (45mm in 645) of wildflowers, with the close flowers right "in your face" and the distant mountains still sharp, gives a breathtaking sense of space, freedom and excitement.  Getting the last detail of the dust on the petals, at the expense of blurring the mountains, just would not work the same way at all on an emotional level, or a visual one for that matter.  This is my conscious trade-off.  I use it without hesitation.
 
I am grateful that the Contax lenses allow a high level of quality, and that Contax actually gives me the option of f32 and f45, which most MF lenses do not.  These are far from useless apertures.   Try it, in the proper context, and you might be very happy with the impact.

Of course, whenever it suits my interpretive goal, I am a sharpmess junkie and always try for f 8-16 if I can.  MF, however, carries less depth of field and the smaller apertures can become necessary.

I am looking forward to all the things I can learn here!

Guy


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tho_mas

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2009, 06:56:17 pm »

Quote from: guyharrison
One reason for the brighter screen is so I can be able to more reliably tell when I do not need to go to f22 or lower. I had not considered the split image issue for critical focus and that is a very good idea. I see there will be a lot of technique improvement needed with the DB -- this was confirmed by my demo where focus that looked good in the finder was, on magnification, slightly and noticeably off. The split screem might be a good tool for me.
That's why I talked about it. First the brighter screen does not help very much as it indicates less accurate focus wide open (so without depth of field preview). And secondly the DOF preview is just an approximation and the more density the screen offers the more accurate is the preview of DOF. But the screen shows much more DOF than the final image will show - the resolution of the sensor is just abnormally high and no matte screen can show this. So it's questionable if one can use the screen for DOF preview clearly. I think it's better to know how the lenses behave...
Quote from: guyharrison
As for small apertures, I have found that an image which carries uniform sharpness front-to-back due to the small aperture (yes, even if softer overall than the optimum aperture could give) can be a much more powerful statement than one that is is critically sharp but has distracting obviously out-of-focus background areas.  An example, a wide angle shot (45mm in 645) of wildflowers, with the close flowers right "in your face" and the distant mountains still sharp, gives a breathtaking sense of space, freedom and excitement. Getting the last detail of the dust on the petals, at the expense of blurring the mountains, just would not work the same way at all on an emotional level, or a visual one for that matter.  This is my conscious trade-off.  I use it without hesitation.
That is a very valid standpoint, of course! Nevertheless f22 or f32 on the P45 looks like there is grease on the lens or any Hamilton style was applied. This depends not on the lenses - it's the same with large format lenses. It depends on the pixel size of the P45. Did you check those small apertures when you tried the P45?
To target your style I think rather a view camera with tilt is the way to go at least when shooting digital.
Another option is focus stacking (see e.g. "Helicon Focus").

Quote from: guyharrison
MF, however, carries less depth of field and the smaller apertures can become necessary.
yes and with the P45 it's about 1.5 stops less DOF. Actually it is not... but as the field of focus is so much sharper than on film it looks like there is less DOF.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 06:56:57 pm by tho_mas »
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guyharrison

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2009, 07:16:13 pm »

Thomas,

You give a lot to think about.  My demo was an hour and a half of outdoor walking around and an hour in a studio.  It was a fabulous demo but did not give the chance for the carefully composed, extreme near/far compositions that I often like and you are right I did not get to use f22 or 32.

I am thinking now it may pay to rent the back for a weekend and really put a hundred images on it with my very best technique.  it may be that the small apertures on digital will not look any better than on film, but at least I have all the digital advantages of knowing I got the shot right away, and the ultimate quality when the composition permits.

The focus stacking software sounds very interesting.

As for a view camera, I am too used to the rapid style, fast put-up and take-down of SLR shooting (even from a tripod which I use 95%)  The view camera really does not work for me as I like to constantly change positions, focal lengths, chase changing light, shoot at the edge of bad weather, aerials and from boats with gyros, and other things where the Contax is just perfect.  I will have to figure out how to get the best out of it with the new back.

As for the screen, does anyone have a contact number for Maxwell Optics?

Guy

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tho_mas

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2009, 07:23:36 pm »

Quote from: guyharrison
You give a lot to think about.
Hopefully other users will offer different views... it's just my standpoint.
Overall... you get used to it quite rapidly and the Contax with the P45 is a joy to shoot with. But ... some... things change compared to film.
Focus bracketing and stacking is certainly a powerful option.
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ddk

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2009, 08:09:42 pm »

Quote from: guyharrison
Hi,

I am a new member and have been learning a huge amount as I contemplate a breathlessly awaited, expensive, and daunting purchase of a MFDB for my Contax system.  I demoed a p45+ (many thanks to the outstanding people at Capture Integration) and that looks like the one for me as I am a landscaper and want the long exposure times.  Just need the lotto numbers . . . .

However, on the topic at hand, as I get a little older, and having seen the incredible focus precision necessary on these new backs, I would like to put a brighter focusing screen in my Contax.  I have seen references to three:

1.  Beattie

2.  Brightscreen

3.  Maxwell Precision Optics

Has the forum had experience with these and how have they worked out?  Is it a worthwhile investment?  I shoot routinely at small apertures (f22 - 45) and checking depth of field is very difficult.

Beattie and Brightscreen have websites but I have not found anything for Maxwell.

Any feedback would be welcome, as they are not cheap!  Also, if you know the winning lotto #s. . .

Thanks,

Guy Harrison

I have all 3 for my Contax 645, forget the Brightscreen, Beattie is good but Maxwell with his Hi-Lux finish is the brightest and best imo and yes, definitely worth the expense and then some.

Maxwell's unofficial site: http://www.mattclara.com/maxwell/index.html;
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 10:16:34 pm by ddk »
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william

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2009, 11:55:14 pm »

Get the maxwell screen, you won't be disappointed. I recently got one for my contax and the difference in brightness versus the standard umodified screen is amazing. I'd say it's a good two stops brighter. Plus Bill Maxwell is just a nice helpful person to deal with.

Quote from: ddk
I have all 3 for my Contax 645, forget the Brightscreen, Beattie is good but Maxwell with his Hi-Lux finish is the brightest and best imo and yes, definitely worth the expense and then some.

Maxwell's unofficial site: http://www.mattclara.com/maxwell/index.html;
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guyharrison

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2009, 12:36:30 pm »

Quote from: william
Get the maxwell screen, you won't be disappointed. I recently got one for my contax and the difference in brightness versus the standard umodified screen is amazing. I'd say it's a good two stops brighter. Plus Bill Maxwell is just a nice helpful person to deal with.

The links for Maxwell do not work.  Does anyone have a telephone number or email?  Based on here and getdpi his screens look like a widespread favorite.

Thanks!

Guy
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ddk

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2009, 12:44:24 pm »

Quote from: guyharrison
The links for Maxwell do not work.  Does anyone have a telephone number or email?  Based on here and getdpi his screens look like a widespread favorite.

Thanks!

Guy

Don't know why the above link doesn't work, this one should be fine.

http://www.mattclara.com/maxwell/index.html

His contact info:

Bill Maxwell
Maxwell Precision Optics
3158 Caintal Ct
Decatur GA 30033
USA
770-939-6644
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narikin

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2009, 03:19:58 pm »

I was just today swapping my 645 between the maxwell screen and the original one, and would  agree that the difference is close to 2 stops.
very good product and most happy with mine.

I think half the people who complain about a dim finder/prism in the Contax, actually are suffering from a poor screen

remember for Maxwell you need to give him an original contax screen to work on, so either you will be without yours for awhile, or have to buy a second.
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Colorwave

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2009, 06:09:22 pm »

The main page for Maxwell works, but not the one specific to Contax.  What is the approximate cost and turnaround time for one?
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ddk

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Contax Focusing Brighter Screen?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2009, 07:03:14 pm »

Quote from: Colorwave
The main page for Maxwell works, but not the one specific to Contax.  What is the approximate cost and turnaround time for one?

Its best to call and talk directly to him, prices vary depending on what you want done to the screen, but they start at around $250 and up. Turnaround time depends on what you want done and how busy he is at the time. My experience, fastest was about a week and slowest was a bit over 3 weeks.
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