Double matting question

[Tony B.]

I have been taking a framing/matting class so I can learn how to frame and mat my prints.

Anyways, in the class when double/triple matting the instructor is having us cut the outer mat opening to size, then cut the inner mat dimensions 1" smaller than the outer mat, stick the mats together with ATG tape and then cut the opening for the inner mat using the outer mat edges as the alignment edge.

I understand why he is having us do this, it allows the inner mat opening to be cut using the outer mat for alignment making the inner and outer mat cuts parallel with each other.

I am just wondering if this is the normal way or if this is the way to cut mat on a lower end mat cutter?

Tony

[Paul2660]

Unless you are using a PC run cutter, the way you describe is the way I learned and still cut.  
Cut the outer first, lay inner on top, and reset your guides to the amount of cut in (reveal) you want
and make the 2nd cut.

Paul Caldwell

[Tklimek]

Hmmm...interesting.  I never really thought of doing it that way.

I have the Logan "Framers Edge" mat cutter which is probably considered low-end here, and I don't believe their video illustrates that usage.  When I cut double mats, I simply subtract the "reveal" from the inner edges of my outer mat (that sounds funny!).

When Bill Atkinson uses his "SpeedMat" in LLVJ #15, he cuts each mat separately and simply uses the amount of reveal he wishes to show and cuts the second mat.  I did not see him using the first mat as a guide; everything was done by the "ruler".  Of course this LLVJ is quite old and perhaps he has changed his technique but I don't know that I really see the need for it, but I'm more of a beginner.

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

I have been taking a framing/matting class so I can learn how to frame and mat my prints.

Anyways, in the class when double/triple matting the instructor is having us cut the outer mat opening to size, then cut the inner mat dimensions 1" smaller than the outer mat, stick the mats together with ATG tape and then cut the opening for the inner mat using the outer mat edges as the alignment edge.

I understand why he is having us do this, it allows the inner mat opening to be cut using the outer mat for alignment making the inner and outer mat cuts parallel with each other.

I am just wondering if this is the normal way or if this is the way to cut mat on a lower end mat cutter?

Tony

[Paul2660]

If you make the two separate cuts, you can have problems lining them up.  Also if you cut alot of mats, option 1 is much faster as you don't have to
to take the time to place the mats on top of each other and line them up, it's already done.  

Paul Caldwell

[framah]

When cutting mats "by hand" rather than using a computerized mat cutter,  the sides of the cut out will be parallel to the sides of the piece of mat board. When you cut the inner mats, you are  still using the top mats perimeter  as the guide for the cut and so all of the cuts will be parallel to each other.  Any time you cut mats separately and then try to align them together, you will not have the cutouts exactly parallel because you might have cut one of the mats a bit out of square or you might not actually have a good enough eye to align the mats perfectly.

The method you describe is the official way to cuts mats and has been for as long as  I can remember and is the way it is taught in any good framing school and the value of the mat cutter has nothing to do with it.
On a CMC, the inner mats are also cut smaller but it is so they do not interfere with the clamps holding the top mat in place on the table.  The advantage of a CMC is that the cuts will always be true 90 degree corners and will perfectly match the other layers and also are not reliant on the outer perimeter of the mat.


By the way... Bill Atkinson is not a professional framer and thus is not the best person to use as an example for how to mat and frame. There is another mistake he makes in showing how he mounts and mats his images.  He says to use Tyvek tape to hinge the image and that is definitely wrong as the tape will never tear.

The problem with this is that the whole idea of the material used to hinge the art is that if the frame package is dropped or jarred enough to make stuff move, the tape is  supposed to fail leaving the art intact. When you use hinging materials that are stronger that the materials you are trying to hinge, guess what fails first...  the art not the hinge.

So do not hinge art with tyvek tape or linen tape or anything that will not tear.  
 
Not masking tape either!!  ...or brown packing tape, or scotch tape. I've seen it all!!  ...even bandaids!!

[andythom68]

To: framah

So what is the "correct" tape to use?



Andy :-)

[framah]

I went back and reran the DVD and found he does use a Filmoplast P-90 tape for the part on the art and uses the Tyvek onto the backer board. It's been a while since I watched that DVD. My mistake in that I had only remembered him using tyvek tape. The filmoplast tape is fine. The Tyvek tape is overkill and I still think it is unnecessary for use in a frame job and the P-90 can be used for that part of the hinge as well.

Sorry for alarming you all with this.


I still don't recommend band-aids!!

[Tklimek]

Thanks Framah.....

Your post is helpful for those of us who don't do this day-in and day-out (like I believe you do).

As far as the cuts go, I'm trying to figure out (I'll reread the original post), how I could align my edges with the outer mat using the Logan mat cutter.  I'll double check the videos that Logan supplied....maybe they show it in there and I just didn't remember.

Thanks again for the tips sir!  It actually makes it easier to use the Filmoplast P-90 tape for both.....one less item on the table..   :-)

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

I went back and reran the DVD and found he does use a Filmoplast P-90 tape for the part on the art and uses the Tyvek onto the backer board. It's been a while since I watched that DVD. My mistake in that I had only remembered him using tyvek tape. The filmoplast tape is fine. The Tyvek tape is overkill and I still think it is unnecessary for use in a frame job and the P-90 can be used for that part of the hinge as well.

Sorry for alarming you all with this.


I still don't recommend band-aids!!

[framah]

Sorry I can't help you with the Logan cutter. I've never used one. I currently have a 60" Fletcher mat cutter as well as a Computerized cutter.

If you describe yours, I can probably offer you some guidance.

[Bill Koenig]

Thanks Framah.....

Your post is helpful for those of us who don't do this day-in and day-out (like I believe you do).

As far as the cuts go, I'm trying to figure out (I'll reread the original post), how I could align my edges with the outer mat using the Logan mat cutter.  I'll double check the videos that Logan supplied....maybe they show it in there and I just didn't remember.

Thanks again for the tips sir!  It actually makes it easier to use the Filmoplast P-90 tape for both.....one less item on the table..   :-)

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

I use LineCo Self-Adhesive Linen Hinging Tape, its 1.25 wide and half the price of the P-90

[framah]

Again... linen tape is not recommended as it is tougher than the paper you are hinging and if the frame drops ... for example, the frame falls off the wall and crashes on the floor... the art paper will tear and not the tape.  Just because you can save 7 or 8 dollars doesn't make it better.  

You can save a lot more money by just using masking tape. You can get 6 packs at Home Depot for very little outlay. The whole idea is to use the right materials for the job and linen tape is not the way to go.

They call it hinging tape because you use it to hinge the mat to the backer board not to hinge the art.

Granted the odds are slim you will ever have an accident that causes damage but the whole idea is to do it right in the first place to avoid the damage to the art that may occur.

[Jim Cole]

for example, the frame falls off the wall and crashes on the floor... the art paper will tear and not the tape.  Just because you can save 7 or 8 dollars doesn't make it better..

I have found from personal experience that the museum glass shattering against the print does far more damage than the possible tearing of the tape/print interface. Granted this is not an issue with acrylic, but I don't use that. The point of using the proper tape is still agood one.

I am also one who cuts the first mat and then cuts the second mat with a measured difference for the reveal without taping them together first. This method has worked for 8 years for me. I use an Alto mat cutter.

Jim

[Justan]

This thread is well timed. I recently bought a used F-T 2200 mat cutter but haven’t used it yet. Due to this thread, I ordered the how to DVD from F-T.

Re the kind of tape to use, it is a rare field that makes plans for the “graceful degradation” or outright failure of a product. Other than to use acid free materials, I'm not convinced that if a piece of art was to fall, that the kind of tape would make any difference in the preservation or lack thereof of the art. It would be an interesting one for Mythbusters. I also agree with the person who said that breaking glass is a greater risk than the kind of tape used.

[Tklimek]

Well, considering the actual very little amount of print that I do, I would say here are the rough "raw consumable" items for packaging a print:

Photo paper
Ink used in the printing of the image
Backboard (foamcore)
Mat board (double if you wish to double mat)
Tape for hinging art to backboard and possibly mat to backboard
Corners (if using)
Clear bag (if bagging)
Frame (if framing)
Certificate (showing authenticity, materials, whatever)

Now if you sort those by cost (highest to lowest - my guess/opinion):

Frame (if framing)
Mat board
Backboard
Paper
Ink
Clear Bag (if bagging)
Corners (if using)
Tape
Certificate

The tape certainly doesn't amount to much ($28 usd for 165 feet which comes to .17 a foot).  In my very limited experience here, it seems that the cost of the frame or the matting materials are the lions share of the raw cost (particularly if you are double matting with archival quality mat).  If I could find some way to cut down on the framing or matting expense (already cutting my own), that would be significant in terms of savings.  Framah, does that list sound about right?  Any suggestions?

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

This thread is well timed. I recently bought a used F-T 2200 mat cutter but haven’t used it yet. Due to this thread, I ordered the how to DVD from F-T.

Re the kind of tape to use, it is a rare field that makes plans for the “graceful degradation” or outright failure of a product. Other than to use acid free materials, I'm not convinced that if a piece of art was to fall, that the kind of tape would make any difference in the preservation or lack thereof of the art. It would be an interesting one for Mythbusters. I also agree with the person who said that breaking glass is a greater risk than the kind of tape used.

[Tony B.]

1st, thanks everyone for the answers. I never knew how the mats were cut until the class and it just seemed like an easy cheat to get matching cuts.


Todd, I will try and explain.  Lets say you are going to cut a 16x20 piece of mat with a 10" x 14" opening (3" border) and a 2nd mat with a 1/4 inch reveal.
set the depth to 3" on the cutter and cut the mat as you normally would (save the part you cut out for use later, try and mark it so you know what way it would go back into the opening you just cut).  On the second mat cut it to 15" x 19", put ATG tape around the back of the 1st mat in about the center of the border and then center the second mat on the 1st mat and stick it to the 1st mat (color side down, against the tape).

Now you need to stick the piece you cut out back into the opening using ATG tape-taped to the 2nd mat.  You do this so you have material under the cutting blade while you cut the 2nd mat.  So now you have the 1st mat cut, the second mat taped to the 1st mat and the piece you cut out of the 1st mat taped back into place.

Now you set your depth guide to 3 1/4" and make your marks and cut just like you did with the 1st mat.  With the 2nd mat smaller than the 1st mat the 1st mat is lining up with the guide, this allows the cuts on the second mat to be cut using the same edge as the 1st mat and therefore the cuts on the 2nd mat should be square with the 1st mat.

I hope this helps, not the best at explaining things.

Tony

Thanks Framah.....

Your post is helpful for those of us who don't do this day-in and day-out (like I believe you do).

As far as the cuts go, I'm trying to figure out (I'll reread the original post), how I could align my edges with the outer mat using the Logan mat cutter.  I'll double check the videos that Logan supplied....maybe they show it in there and I just didn't remember.

Thanks again for the tips sir!  It actually makes it easier to use the Filmoplast P-90 tape for both.....one less item on the table..   :-)

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

[framah]

Todd..

You forgot the most expensive part of any frame job:


Mercedes car payment
Frame (if framing)
Mat board
Backboard
Paper
Ink
Clear Bag (if bagging)
Corners (if using)
Tape
Certificate

Other than that, yes you are right.

[Tklimek]

 

Todd..

You forgot the most expensive part of any frame job:


Mercedes car payment
Frame (if framing)
Mat board
Backboard
Paper
Ink
Clear Bag (if bagging)
Corners (if using)
Tape
Certificate

Other than that, yes you are right.