Expression Media

[mcfoto]

Hi
I am going to buy the new Phase One SW & I can buy it bundled with Expression Media 2 for an extra $130.00 AUD. We do have LR & I was wondering if this is better than LR for organising  files?
Thanks Denis

[rcannonp]

If you want Expression Media, you might check with Microsoft first. I don't know about Australia, but in the US you can get it for the upgrade price($99USD) if you own any other photo software.

I got EM2 because it handles file formats that LR does not. For simply handling photos, I like LR better, but it may be that I'm just more familiar with it. I still use LR for processing and initial photo management.

[terence_patrick]

EM2 is a good program for cataloging and okay for editing large batches of files. The capture sets and ability to view multiple selected "sets" and/or folders together is the best thing about the software, imo. The downside to EM2, and the reason why I started using Photo Mechanic, is that thumbnails get built to a specific size (that you specify) and the size/quality of the thumbnails will affect the catalog size which last I checked is limited to 2GB (you'll start crashing EM regularly once the catalog file gets close to 1.8GB).

So if you're a high volume shooter who likes to see large, hi-quality thumbnails, you might hit the limit quickly and will have to create a new catalog file - I had catalogs for each year of my business and 2008 was split between two catalog files. As such, I moved over to Photo Mechanic which is more of a file viewer and an extremely fast editor. I just create the hierarchy of folders manually.

[Nick Rains]

Hi
I am going to buy the new Phase One SW & I can buy it bundled with Expression Media 2 for an extra $130.00 AUD. We do have LR & I was wondering if this is better than LR for organising  files?
Thanks Denis

Hi Denis

LR tries to be many things, and whilst it's an excellent RAW processor, it's not real good at DAM.

xMedia2 is an excellent DAM, but it's not a RAW processor or a particularly good file browser.

PhotoMechanic is an awesome file browser and editor, but it's neither of the above.

LR will perform all three tasks to a certain degree - the other apps are tightly focussed on their own specific tasks and are the better for it.

I use LR, xMedia and PhotoMechanic as part of my workflow, I use each for the task it was intended.

[ddk]

Hi
I am going to buy the new Phase One SW & I can buy it bundled with Expression Media 2 for an extra $130.00 AUD. We do have LR & I was wondering if this is better than LR for organising  files?
Thanks Denis

I installed EM2 and found out that it was incompatible with most of Raw files, ie Leaf, Fuji, and Kodak. Then I had a nightmare experience when I tied to remove the incompatible thumbnails from the catalog by selecting them and clicking on X, the thumbnails were removed and all looked fine until I started searching for the removed images. To my horror I found the EM2 had removed and binned all the original files while removing thumbs from the catalog, without any warning or notice. You can imagine how I felt looking at empty folders with 4 years of work gone! Fortunately I have backups of the original raw files but I lost all my edited and processed work which I only kept on local RAIDs thinking that they'll be safe enough. I lost months if not a good year's worth of work and I'm still working on re-cataloguing 4tbs of raw files. I don't were MS found this crap program from originally and obviously the engineers who worked on it never actually use it for real. Basically Buyer BEWARE!

On the other hand LR is compatible with almost all types of Raw files, has great editing tools and I found it excellent for organizing files too. And if ever you decide to modify your catalogs and remove thumbs it will not remove the originals from your drives without your knowledge. Unlike EM which is an unfinished 3rd party product picked and rebadged by MS, LR is a professional product designed and developed by Adobe which is arguably the largest and best company in the world for image processing software and with the longest experience in this field. I know who I'll continue to support and trust and who not to bother with again.

[Nick Rains]

I installed EM2 and found out that it was incompatible with most of Raw files, ie Leaf, Fuji, and Kodak. Then I had a nightmare experience when I tied to remove the incompatible thumbnails from the catalog by selecting them and clicking on X, the thumbnails were removed and all looked fine until I started searching for the removed images. To my horror I found the EM2 had removed and binned all the original files while removing thumbs from the catalog, without any warning or notice. You can imagine how I felt looking at empty folders with 4 years of work gone! Fortunately I have backups of the original raw files but I lost all my edited and processed work which I only kept on local RAIDs thinking that they'll be safe enough. I lost months if not a good year's worth of work and I'm still working on re-cataloguing 4tbs of raw files. I don't were MS found this crap program from originally and obviously the engineers who worked on it never actually use it for real. Basically Buyer BEWARE!

It's a pity you had a bad experience, what a bummer. (on the PC) if I hit the delete key I get the option to 'remove from catalog' OR 'move to recycle', if I click the X icon I don't get the 'remove from catalog' option but I do get an 'are you sure' warning. On the Mac I get much the same thing, although I note that the dialog has the 'Remove' option highlighted by default, whilst it would be safer to have the 'remove from catalog' option highlighted by default just to be safe.

Lots and lots of people use xMedia, it's one of the best DAMs around - however, it is indeed flawed and Microsoft have been very tardy in ironing out some odd little idiosyncrasies. If it was 100% it would be perfect, as it is it's still worth using/tolerating because it's so much better than LR at being a DAM.

"found out that it was incompatible with most of Raw files, ie Leaf, Fuji, and Kodak" It's not compatible with Hasselblad 3FR too, but it is compatible with 100+ common files formats, it's just some of the MFDB proprietary ones it cannot work with, esp when there is no embedded preview in the RAW file.

[john beardsworth]

...To my horror I found the EM2 had removed and binned all the original files while removing thumbs from the catalog, without any warning or notice....

What part of the warning dialog "Move filexyz.xyz to the Recycle Bin/Trash" didn't you understand? You've really got to acknowledge that the nonsense in that paragraph is wholly due to user error.

You also had problems with some niche raw file formats, all (I think) which could be converted to DNG which would bring other benefits. While EM may not be able to import those files directly, it can manage many many other formats which LR might never handle. How many photographers' DAM needs are confined to just a few file types that their last camera could produce?

John

[ddk]

What part of the warning dialog "Move filexyz.xyz to the Recycle Bin/Trash" didn't you understand? You've really got to acknowledge that the nonsense in that paragraph is wholly due to user error.

First, I want you to check your language, I don't see any reason for your aggressive tone!

There was no such warning and the same operation, ie clicking X or delete key, in all the different software that I use results only in removal of thumbs from the catalog and not trashing original files without any warning!

You also had problems with some niche raw file formats, all (I think) which could be converted to DNG which would bring other benefits. While EM may not be able to import those files directly, it can manage many many other formats which LR might never handle. How many photographers' DAM needs are confined to just a few file types that their last camera could produce?

John

What you call niche is handled by all the imaging software that I own and know of and all are even handled by the Mac OS, EM is the exception to the rule and not the norm. Most photographers that I know have built libraries of many different kinds of files over the years and need a DAM for their entire library and not what they just shot yesterday. And your final suggestion to convert all to DNG, well, who's talking nonsense now?

[john beardsworth]

Then you must have been distracted when the warning dialog was presented. Expression Media does not delete files without a warning, and your statement was factually incorrect.

As for niche formats that won't read your files, try any other DAM based on QuickTime, or (without checking your formats) look at the number of raw formats Aperture won't support. Convert to DNG and you bypass those issues, and gain other benefits.

John

[charleski]

Expression Media just doesn't cut it for me as a cataloguer (which is supposed to be its primary purpose). I tried using it to catalogue several DVDs with old RAW files and it was more trouble than it's worth. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, but xMedia refused to import data from subfolders on the DVD unless I explicitly told it to rebuild all items. Moreover, its handling of keywords added in Bridge is inconsistent and useless. Eventually, I just gave up. Maybe Expression Media just isn't designed to handle offline media, it certainly seems that way. I just can't see a useful place for it in my DAM workflow.

The catalogue functions in LR can handle both online and offline media perfectly (and can automatically transition a catalogue of online media to offline when you archive it to free up space), and LR's general workflow integration is miles better. I also keep a separate catalogue of offline files in Whereisit, though it's import function (based on dcraw) is pretty slow.

Expression Media gets a thumbs down from me, especially for anyone using Lightroom.

[edit:apostrophes do matter]

[kers]

Then you must have been distracted when the warning dialog was presented. Expression Media does not delete files without a warning, and your statement was factually incorrect.
John

being a iView media user before I also once had a problem that my files were flushed- I guess I made a "user" mistake then.
One problem is that deleted files are not found in the bin- ist is a good thing that Timemachine has come along. ( i am using mac)

I am still user of MS expression media- but I agree it is still not perfect; the program has some oddities- having said that I like it a lot for its strength and simplicity - don't know anything better.
( but maybe have to try Photomechanic?)
pieter Kers