Which printer for me

[Etienne Cassar]

I am an amateur photographer, and currently do not own any printer to print my pictures.  I used to send my pictures over to a professional lab for printing but would like to start printing them myself.  I don't plan to be printing anything larger than A3.  My concern in owning a printer myself is that I will start having problems with head clogging due to low use of printer.  It won't be recieving heavy use from me and I am afraid that this will lead to ink clogging in the head of printer.  Anyone here owns a printer which he doesn't use as much?  What is his experience with regards to clogging?  Which printer should I consider getting in my case?

[dalethorn]

I am an amateur photographer, and currently do not own any printer to print my pictures.  I used to send my pictures over to a professional lab for printing but would like to start printing them myself.  I don't plan to be printing anything larger than A3.  My concern in owning a printer myself is that I will start having problems with head clogging due to low use of printer.  It won't be recieving heavy use from me and I am afraid that this will lead to ink clogging in the head of printer.  Anyone here owns a printer which he doesn't use as much?  What is his experience with regards to clogging?  Which printer should I consider getting in my case?

I use an HP Deskjet which does decent photo printing. I print about 10-15 photos per session, and sessions can be a week or a month or more apart. I never get clogging. My experience with clogging many years ago was when the printer was printing a lot at one time.

[Randy Carone]

I've had an Epson 2200 for a few years. I print a couple of 13 x 19s a week with no issues. I run a Nozzle Check before I print and occasionally have to run a Cleaning. I'm very happy with the results. BTW, it was a refurbished printer and has been flawless. The 2400 is the current version of this size printer.

[Tklimek]

Ecassar....

You have not included what your budget might look like.  An Epson 3800 would be a fine choice or potentially even a 4800/4880 if you could find a good bargain on one.  These printers will produce fabulous output.

As far as clogging, some on this forum have indicated printing every couple of weeks or so but make sure that you print a couple of prints at a time.  I've got an Epson 4880 which I print make a point to print at least 1 print a week from to help clogging; which seems to be doing the trick.....we'll see over time.  I'm probably going to go to 2 prints a week just to be sure.  You can get yourself an inexpensive pack of paper such as Epson Premium Luster or a "copy" brand such as Brilliant Luster and your cost for your prints that you use to keep the ink from clogging will be miniscule.

Have fun!

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

I am an amateur photographer, and currently do not own any printer to print my pictures.  I used to send my pictures over to a professional lab for printing but would like to start printing them myself.  I don't plan to be printing anything larger than A3.  My concern in owning a printer myself is that I will start having problems with head clogging due to low use of printer.  It won't be recieving heavy use from me and I am afraid that this will lead to ink clogging in the head of printer.  Anyone here owns a printer which he doesn't use as much?  What is his experience with regards to clogging?  Which printer should I consider getting in my case?

[Etienne Cassar]

Thanks for your replies.  I am trying to decide between the Epson Stylus Pro 4880, Canon imagePROGRAF iPF5100 or the Canon Pixma Pro 9500.  I am being a bit put off by the Epson because of the black ink swapping thing.  On the other hand I am not sure whether to opt for professional grade printer such as the 4880 or the iPF5100, or if I'll be happy enough with a lower grade printer such as the 9500.  Is the difference in quality so great (not taking into consideration the print size difference between them) to warrant the extra expense?

[Lisa Nikodym]

I am being a bit put off by the Epson because of the black ink swapping thing.

Note that unlike some Epsons, the Epson 3800 does *not* have much of ink swapping issue.  It has both types of ink cartridge already in it, and switches between them automatically (with only a little ink lossage) based on the type of paper you're using.

Lisa

[Tklimek]

Ecassar.....

As I mentioned I have the 4880 and love it.  As someone else mentioned the Epson 3800 is also a great choice; I can't speak to the Canon printers as I have no experience with them.

The 3800 gives you a smaller footprint, reduced price, and no swaps for the black inks but no ability to use roll paper.  The 4880 is typicaly considered a "workhorse", and has a slightly better head technology and inkset, the ability to use larger ink cartridges and roll paper.

If you do not print that often, are you sure that the infamous "black ink swap" problem is really that important to you?  This Epson 4880 was my first printer and I was in a bit of a quandry because of the ink swap issue; but I really didn't know if I liked matte or photo better anyway or which type of images work better with which; so I just decided to go with the 4880 anyway.  So far I've not even used matte paper and am quite happy with the Epson Premium Luster, Brilliant Luster (copy of Epson), and Epson Exhibition Fiber.  I do have one roll of matte paper but haven't even used it yet.....even to test.

So I guess part of my question to you is are you at the stage of your ability where you know what you want in terms of matte or photo?  I guess what I'm saying is, depending on your own situation and needs, it might not be as big of a deal as you think.

I decided on the 4880 due to mainly 2 reasons; I got a good deal at the time with several rolls of paper for free and when you consider the extra bit of ink in the 4880 vs. 3800 the price of the 4880 that I paid was only a few hundred more than the 3800, and over the long term I felt the ability to use roll paper and larger ink cartridges would bring my costs per print down.

I have no regrets about my decision and I think that you will find supportors of many of the various Epson and Canon printers here, but I don't think I really recall anyone saying anything negative about the 4880 other than the black ink swap issue.

Have fun trying to decide!

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

Thanks for your replies.  I am trying to decide between the Epson Stylus Pro 4880, Canon imagePROGRAF iPF5100 or the Canon Pixma Pro 9500.  I am being a bit put off by the Epson because of the black ink swapping thing.  On the other hand I am not sure whether to opt for professional grade printer such as the 4880 or the iPF5100, or if I'll be happy enough with a lower grade printer such as the 9500.  Is the difference in quality so great (not taking into consideration the print size difference between them) to warrant the extra expense?

[Deepsouth]

Thanks for your replies.  I am trying to decide between the Epson Stylus Pro 4880, Canon imagePROGRAF iPF5100 or the Canon Pixma Pro 9500.  I am being a bit put off by the Epson because of the black ink swapping thing.  On the other hand I am not sure whether to opt for professional grade printer such as the 4880 or the iPF5100, or if I'll be happy enough with a lower grade printer such as the 9500.  Is the difference in quality so great (not taking into consideration the print size difference between them) to warrant the extra expense?

I have the Canon Pixma Pro 9500 (Mark I, although not labelled as such). The MK II (out in May) says it's faster; the MK I was noted rightfully for glacial speed. The inkset is the same, and so are the number of nozzles. I am very happy with the 9500, but in fairness I have not done side-by-sides with comparable printers. I relied on review sites plus my traditional bias for all things Canon to guide me.  I had two prior Epsons, an 870 and a 1270. My impression of those older generation printers is they could produce fine results if you were willing to fiddle a lot. Both were prone to head clogs resulting in wasted carts of ink. My impression of Epson printers is that they are capable of wonderful results but are too high-strung for most amatuers. Again, these are older generation models, and my experiences are not necessarily representative of current models.

As I'm sure you already know, to get good results on any printer, you must understand and use color management, including profiles.

If you have the funds, I really advise you to buy a 17 inch carriage machine that can take roll stock. The 13 inch machines are really orphans in the sense that many good cut-sheet papers are not made for them, and the manufacturers tend to lump with them "prosumer" gear and therefore may not support them as well as 17 inch and wider machines..

[Etienne Cassar]

Wow.  Thanks for all this information.  That was really helpfull, even though I am still undecided which way to go.  You are quite right Todd about the matte vs photo paper.  I don't quite know which I prefer and whether I'll be using both in the future because I am still new to this thing of printing photographs myself, but I am afraid that if I have to waste ink to be able to print on matte media I will just print on photo media and not try to experiment with different paper.  I really like Epson printers, and I have even read on various reviews that they have the widest colour gamut and best resolution among all brands, but I have another problem.  In my country there isn't a professional dealer who can supply me with the Epson printer, and to get one I'll have to order it from abroad.  Now I wonder if this will be too much of a risk in case I have issues with it.  It will not be nice to have to stay shipping it back in case of a fault.  On the other hand there is a Canon dealer in my country who seems quite proficient and trustworthy, so this might make me go in favour of a Canon printer, even though the prices quoted are quite high.  It will actually work out cheaper for me to buy the Epson 4880 and have to pay for the freight to get it, than to buy the iPF5100 from my local dealer!
Deepsouth, with regards to cut sheet paper vs roll paper, my local canon dealer told me that there is no ideal media available for the Pro9500.  Most cut sheet media is made for dye ink not pigment ink.  In fact he told me that if makes more sense to get the Pro9000 over the Pro9500 because of that, but then I know that I won't be able to print B&W images so this is completely excluded.  Also I am not 100% confident that dye ink prints will last so long, even though it is claimed by Canon that their dye inks will last up to 100yrs.

Etienne

[Deepsouth]

-snip-
Deepsouth, with regards to cut sheet paper vs roll paper, my local canon dealer told me that there is no ideal media available for the Pro9500.  Most cut sheet media is made for dye ink not pigment ink.  In fact he told me that if makes more sense to get the Pro9000 over the Pro9500 because of that, but then I know that I won't be able to print B&W images so this is completely excluded.  Also I am not 100% confident that dye ink prints will last so long, even though it is claimed by Canon that their dye inks will last up to 100yrs.

Etienne

Your dealer is not well-informed. There is no "ideal" media for ANY printer, there are only choices that work better (or worse) for various types of images and applications. If anything, we have too many choices with a large number of "me too" rebranded papers floating around out there.

There is plenty of cut sheet media available for pigment, as well as dye OR pigment, at least in the US: in the EU, I am not so sure.. Some people like the B&W images they get with dye, although, it is true that the great majority of serious B&W image-makers go with pigment, in part because the black & gray inksets for B&W were pioneered with pigment printers.

Longevity is a complex subject, and I'm not Henry Wilhelm. However, I have dye prints under glass that are 10 years old that have hung in my home under room lighting and show no fading. My opinion is that if you are using a Willhem-rated inkset and media that are rated 50 years or more, and you put your images under glass or in archival sleeves in the dark, you're OK. I would NOT choose an inkset and media combo rated at 100 years over a 50 year set just because of the rated longevity. I'd go for the combination that gave me the best results, do what I can to conserve the image, and then not worry about it.

[Etienne Cassar]

Your dealer is not well-informed. There is no "ideal" media for ANY printer, there are only choices that work better (or worse) for various types of images and applications. If anything, we have too many choices with a large number of "me too" rebranded papers floating around out there.

There is plenty of cut sheet media available for pigment, as well as dye OR pigment, at least in the US: in the EU, I am not so sure.. Some people like the B&W images they get with dye, although, it is true that the great majority of serious B&W image-makers go with pigment, in part because the black & gray inksets for B&W were pioneered with pigment printers.

Longevity is a complex subject, and I'm not Henry Wilhelm. However, I have dye prints under glass that are 10 years old that have hung in my home under room lighting and show no fading. My opinion is that if you are using a Willhem-rated inkset and media that are rated 50 years or more, and you put your images under glass or in archival sleeves in the dark, you're OK. I would NOT choose an inkset and media combo rated at 100 years over a 50 year set just because of the rated longevity. I'd go for the combination that gave me the best results, do what I can to conserve the image, and then not worry about it.

It could be that my dealer is referring to Canon paper only.  The problem is that I am very new to this business of printing and still have to find out what kind of paper there is available and what is the difference between them.  How will I know whether a paper can be used with a particular printer?  Is it just a matter of trying it out?  
Also I have tried to evaluate the cost of printing on the Pro 9500 vs that on the 5100, and there seems to be quite a difference in cost (that of the Pro being higher of course).  However I am afraid that it will take me quite a while to use a whole 130ml cartridge of a 5100 as opposed to a 14ml cartridge on a 9500 because I won't be printing all that much.  Will this be a problem?  I mean is there a time limit to use the ink once it has been installed in the printer?

[Tklimek]

Ecassar....

I think that you might find out that you will print more than you think.  I feel like printing is a bit more like art than science and as such, you may end up making test prints, etc.  You really want to be able to "practice" printing so that you are familiar with your equipment, the paper(s) you wish to use, and the software that you use to produce the expected results.  Note there is quite a few variables at work.  Nothing worse than wanting to get a print and it not coming out the way you want because you don't "practice" printing.  I speak on this from experience....     This may sound silly to some, but if you don't print on a regular basis (sounds like this may be your case), you may want to adopt a strategy that I'm currently trying which is to make at least 2 prints a week.....even I do not really need to.  These can be prints on inexpensive 8.5x11 paper but serve to keep you in "practice", keep the printer from clogging, etc.  Just my .02 and I'm sure many of the experienced members here can pipe in with their own observations and experience.

Have fun!

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

It could be that my dealer is referring to Canon paper only.  The problem is that I am very new to this business of printing and still have to find out what kind of paper there is available and what is the difference between them.  How will I know whether a paper can be used with a particular printer?  Is it just a matter of trying it out?  
Also I have tried to evaluate the cost of printing on the Pro 9500 vs that on the 5100, and there seems to be quite a difference in cost (that of the Pro being higher of course).  However I am afraid that it will take me quite a while to use a whole 130ml cartridge of a 5100 as opposed to a 14ml cartridge on a 9500 because I won't be printing all that much.  Will this be a problem?  I mean is there a time limit to use the ink once it has been installed in the printer?

[Etienne Cassar]

Ecassar....

I think that you might find out that you will print more than you think.  I feel like printing is a bit more like art than science and as such, you may end up making test prints, etc.  You really want to be able to "practice" printing so that you are familiar with your equipment, the paper(s) you wish to use, and the software that you use to produce the expected results.  Note there is quite a few variables at work.  Nothing worse than wanting to get a print and it not coming out the way you want because you don't "practice" printing.  I speak on this from experience....     This may sound silly to some, but if you don't print on a regular basis (sounds like this may be your case), you may want to adopt a strategy that I'm currently trying which is to make at least 2 prints a week.....even I do not really need to.  These can be prints on inexpensive 8.5x11 paper but serve to keep you in "practice", keep the printer from clogging, etc.  Just my .02 and I'm sure many of the experienced members here can pipe in with their own observations and experience.

Have fun!

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

Todd, that is exactly what I have in mind.  I am not planning to start selling my work or anything of the sort, because photography for me is a pure hobby.  But as it is now I simply don't print my pictures because I don't have printer and I feel that I lose half of the fun by sending them over to lab for printing.  To make matters worse there is not a single lab in country (at least that I know of) that is capable of providing me with a good professional service at a reasonable price, and I have to stay sending my pictures abroad for printing.  This is too much of a hassle, not to say that no matter how proficient and helpful the lab is, I still get prints that are not as good as I want (probably not their fault).  So I decided to get a printer and start printing myself.  I have read a lot about colour management, and I think I know enough to be able to know and understand what I am doing.  Right now I am learning a lot about sharpening (I have just finished reading the book by Bruce Fraser) so I only have to start putting that into practice now.  But to do that I need a printer and when I get one I am sure that I'll be printing at least 2 prints a week.  It is only that I am afraid that the 5100 might be overkill for me and I want to make sure that I make the right decision.

[hsmeets]

Todd, that is exactly what I have in mind.  I am not planning to start selling my work or anything of the sort, because photography for me is a pure hobby.  But as it is now I simply don't print my pictures because I don't have printer and I feel that I lose half of the fun by sending them over to lab for printing.  To make matters worse there is not a single lab in country (at least that I know of) that is capable of providing me with a good professional service at a reasonable price, and I have to stay sending my pictures abroad for printing.  This is too much of a hassle, not to say that no matter how proficient and helpful the lab is, I still get prints that are not as good as I want (probably not their fault).  So I decided to get a printer and start printing myself.  I have read a lot about colour management, and I think I know enough to be able to know and understand what I am doing.  Right now I am learning a lot about sharpening (I have just finished reading the book by Bruce Fraser) so I only have to start putting that into practice now.  But to do that I need a printer and when I get one I am sure that I'll be printing at least 2 prints a week.  It is only that I am afraid that the 5100 might be overkill for me and I want to make sure that I make the right decision.

As others wrote before, you will be printing more as you will have the opportunity. I came from the wet darkroom and my output was minimal. When I switched to inkjet to produce output I printed a whole lot more. In 1 year I printed roughly 25 square meters and replaced 4 of the 12 ink cartridges (other 8 are soon due). I'm in the same boat as you: hobbyist, no ambition to sell prints, etc. I have a 5100 (but any other 17" Epson will be fine too). Overkill or not, these 17" printers like the canon 5100 and epson 4880 are very nice machines, you cant't compare these to the wunderplastic consumer printers. I have no doubt that this printer will still be in my room 5 years from now.

About paper: the majority of modern papers will do fine in any printer, it's more a case of personal taste what works or not.

[Etienne Cassar]

As others wrote before, you will be printing more as you will have the opportunity. I came from the wet darkroom and my output was minimal. When I switched to inkjet to produce output I printed a whole lot more. In 1 year I printed roughly 25 square meters and replaced 4 of the 12 ink cartridges (other 8 are soon due). I'm in the same boat as you: hobbyist, no ambition to sell prints, etc. I have a 5100 (but any other 17" Epson will be fine too). Overkill or not, these 17" printers like the canon 5100 and epson 4880 are very nice machines, you cant't compare these to the wunderplastic consumer printers. I have no doubt that this printer will still be in my room 5 years from now.

About paper: the majority of modern papers will do fine in any printer, it's more a case of personal taste what works or not.

Oh thanks for your input.  It is nice to hear that there are other hobbyists like me who own a 17".  I think that most probably I'll get the 5100, because, knowing me, I'll only feel sorry later if I don't.  It is somewhat expensive here in my country (€2154 not including the stand which is another €230.01), but I'll be getting 3 free glossy paper rolls and 3 free matt coated rolls with it (which still I don't know how much they cost).  I was also considering the Epson 4880 but I'll have to get that from abroad because there is no reputable dealer in my country.  The cost of the printer together with the freight will probably be less than that of buying the 5100 from my country, but I won't have any aftersales support and warranty coverage then, and this puts me off for the Epson.  The HP I won't even consider because their smallest carriage is 24", which is massive for my use, and the price for a 24" Z2100 is €3715.35, which is way too expensive.

[Tklimek]

Ah....forgot to mention I am a complete hobbyist as well.

Don't discount the fact that friends and family typically would love to get a matted and bagged print; or you can consider donating some to charitible auctions, local coffee shops, etc.  I originally had the idea that I would sell some of my prints to help offset the cost of my investment in the printer and supplies (mat cutter, etc.) and I figured at best I would sell enough to recoup my investment is supplies; at worst have a great printer to print cat pictures ....    .

I sign, mat, and bag (clearbags.com) every print and include a certificate of authenticity etc; regardless if they are destined for for family or friends or the "pile" which I might try to sell/auction/give away, etc.

Kind of adds to the fun!

Cheers...


Todd in Chicago

Oh thanks for your input.  It is nice to hear that there are other hobbyists like me who own a 17".  I think that most probably I'll get the 5100, because, knowing me, I'll only feel sorry later if I don't.  It is somewhat expensive here in my country (€2154 not including the stand which is another €230.01), but I'll be getting 3 free glossy paper rolls and 3 free matt coated rolls with it (which still I don't know how much they cost).  I was also considering the Epson 4880 but I'll have to get that from abroad because there is no reputable dealer in my country.  The cost of the printer together with the freight will probably be less than that of buying the 5100 from my country, but I won't have any aftersales support and warranty coverage then, and this puts me off for the Epson.  The HP I won't even consider because their smallest carriage is 24", which is massive for my use, and the price for a 24" Z2100 is €3715.35, which is way too expensive.

[Deepsouth]

It could be that my dealer is referring to Canon paper only.  The problem is that I am very new to this business of printing and still have to find out what kind of paper there is available and what is the difference between them.  How will I know whether a paper can be used with a particular printer?  Is it just a matter of trying it out?  
Also I have tried to evaluate the cost of printing on the Pro 9500 vs that on the 5100, and there seems to be quite a difference in cost (that of the Pro being higher of course).  However I am afraid that it will take me quite a while to use a whole 130ml cartridge of a 5100 as opposed to a 14ml cartridge on a 9500 because I won't be printing all that much.  Will this be a problem?  I mean is there a time limit to use the ink once it has been installed in the printer?

Todd's (and the others') advice is right on; make prints, because that is the only way to learn. Most paper vendors will tell you if a paper is suited for dye or pigment. Harman, Canon (of course) and a few other vendors will tell you if a media is suitable for a particular printer. The easiest way to tell is to see if they offer a profile for a particular printer. However, I've also used media that was unspecified and gotten fine results from pigments or dye. At present I am using up some old canvas a pal gave me, made even before the Epson 2000 pigment printer, and it works fine with my 9500.

[Etienne Cassar]

Ah....forgot to mention I am a complete hobbyist as well.

Don't discount the fact that friends and family typically would love to get a matted and bagged print; or you can consider donating some to charitible auctions, local coffee shops, etc.  I originally had the idea that I would sell some of my prints to help offset the cost of my investment in the printer and supplies (mat cutter, etc.) and I figured at best I would sell enough to recoup my investment is supplies; at worst have a great printer to print cat pictures ....    .

I sign, mat, and bag (clearbags.com) every print and include a certificate of authenticity etc; regardless if they are destined for for family or friends or the "pile" which I might try to sell/auction/give away, etc.

Kind of adds to the fun!

Cheers...


Todd in Chicago

That is pushing my decision more in favour of a 17" printer with high capacity ink cartridges than a 13" with smaller cartidges.  I think that I'll go for the Canon 1500.  I have downloaded some profiles of this printer and I am quite happy with the softproofs that I am getting.  Blues and reds look awesome in the softproof.  One thing left to settle before I take the plunge; convince my wife that I need a massive 50kg printer in the study room of my house to be able to print my pictures.  Guess I'd better start looking for some good pictures to print for her to hang in the house.  That might help, I hope .

[hsmeets]

That is pushing my decision more in favour of a 17" printer with high capacity ink cartridges than a 13" with smaller cartidges.  I think that I'll go for the Canon 1500.  I have downloaded some profiles of this printer and I am quite happy with the softproofs that I am getting.  Blues and reds look awesome in the softproof.  One thing left to settle before I take the plunge; convince my wife that I need a massive 50kg printer in the study room of my house to be able to print my pictures.  Guess I'd better start looking for some good pictures to print for her to hang in the house.  That might help, I hope .

How much of an actor are you   you could always act surprised when the printer shows up on your doorstep  

I'm getting in a doubt about softproofing: what do you actually see:

[attachment=12952:Ilford_v..._Apple_1.jpg]

Comparing ICC profiles of iMac screen and Canon 5100 on Ilford Gallery Smooth Pearl (grey is Apple, colored = Ilford) seems like Canon gamut exceeds screen gamut on some colors.....

[howardm]

I dont think it's unusual for a printer/ink/paper combo to exceed fragments of a standard monitor's gamut these days.