Epson 3800/OS X 10.5.6 print settings

[BobH]

Hi,

I have had a new Epson 3800 for about a week now and in many attempts I have not had an acceptable print from the 3800 using Lightroom or Photoshop CS3. I am using OS X 10.5.6 with the latest driver 6.11 for the 3800. I have also tried the driver from the enclosed driver disk (3.57 or so, and have used driver 6.10 as well as the Beta drivers from the Epson site and replacement versions of 6.11 from Canon Europe, USA and Asia-Pacific. As all drivers (even the noncompliant 3.xx driver) have produced the same results, the problems are of a general nature regarding the Epson 3800 and not about the version of OSX or conditions of my Mac Pro. I have stayed with the USB port because of problems described in a few web sites regarding the Ethernet connection.

The problem I am having is that the prints I am getting are coming out dull (restricted luminosity, lower contrast) and are quite dark (infusion of gray). This is true with Epson Enhanced matte and with Moab Lasal Matte 235. My other printer is a Canon Pixma Pro 9000 (dye inks) that produces consistent images that match the screen using either Lightroom or PS CS3. My screen has been recalibrated (color LUT settings) at least a dozen times in the last week using brightness levels from 80 cd/m2 to 150 cd/m2, with no apparent impact on printing. The 3800 prints are very consistently dull (better in CS3 than LR 2.3). The Canon 9000 prints are uniformly good mimics of the screen. So reducing screen intensity is not a factor.

I have gone through Eric Chan's pages on 3800 printing with a fine toothed comb. The results have been consistently dull. The settings of the older driver given on that page have been tried with no result changes. Translating the settings into the new driver have produced no changes. I have copied ICC profiles into several subdirectories where some web pages have indicated that extra profiles need to be copied manually, with minor improvemnt in brightness but not in reduction of gray content. I have reset the Colorsync default setting for EMP to the Lasal paper, with a small improvement. But nothing has marched the quality of the (cheaper) Canon PP 9000 images on the same paper. Frankly the images are better on the Moab paper than the Epson EMP. So I have concluded that the published profiles of the Moab paper are ok, as at the Epson Print Academy in Toronto the Epson profiles were praised as being very consistently good.

In Lightroom my settings are

Page size set to appropriate paper
Print Settings
            Color Matching set to Epson Color Controls  (recommendation on one site-ignore this setting;but if set to Colorsync, print is unmanagebly dark-double color management!)
            Print Setting - Media Type set to EMP -ok for EMP and recommended for Lasal Matte
                               - Color set to color and 16 bit box checked
                               - Color Settings set to off (no color adjustment)
                               - Print Quality set to Superfine 1440  and other dialogue boxes below unchecked
On the lower right panel of LR - Print Resolution set to 300 (200-360 tried with no difference)
                                            - Print Sharpening set to Medium or High (no difference to print color)
                                            - media type set to Matte, 16 bit printing enabled
                                   Color Management
                                            - Paper set to type (EMP or Lasal Matte)
                                            - Rendering Intent set to Perceptual or Relative (little impact on print color seen)
Print One used as the Print Button brings the Printer dialogue box up again that has Color Matching forced back to Colorsync and Grayed out.

After going through every web page I can find for ideas, I have tried every possibility suggested with no improvement I am out of ideas. As the 3800 is widely used with success, it is most likely I have missed some simple thing. So now I am looking for suggestions that I may not have tried.

It may be that I will have to switch the printer over to my Windows box.

I have only a colorimeter (Spyder 3) and do not want to spend on a spectrophotometer to make custom profiles for paper (the only thing I have not tried and recommended by a few web sites) That is why I have tried Epson papers as the profiles were lauded by the gurus in residence at the Epson Rpint Academy in Toronto.

Bob

[Wayne Fox]

Hi,


Page size set to appropriate paper
Print Settings
            Color Matching set to Epson Color Controls  (recommendation on one site-ignore this setting;but if set to Colorsync, print is unmanagebly dark-double color management!)
            Print Setting - Media Type set to EMP -ok for EMP and recommended for Lasal Matte
                               - Color set to color and 16 bit box checked
                               - Color Settings set to off (no color adjustment)
                               - Print Quality set to Superfine 1440  and other dialogue boxes below unchecked
On the lower right panel of LR - Print Resolution set to 300 (200-360 tried with no difference)
                                            - Print Sharpening set to Medium or High (no difference to print color)
                                            - media type set to Matte, 16 bit printing enabled
                                   Color Management
                                            - Paper set to type (EMP or Lasal Matte)
                                            - Rendering Intent set to Perceptual or Relative (little impact on print color seen)
Print One used as the Print Button brings the Printer dialogue box up again that has Color Matching forced back to Colorsync and Grayed out.


Bob

What version of Lightroom?  Looking at your setup, you shouldn't be able to select Epson Color Controls from the Color Matching screen unless you have told Lightroom to let the printer manage colors.  The ColorSync choice is "highlighted" only because it is the default, but these options should be grayed out all of the time if you have chosen a paper profile from Lightroom.  If not, then something is amiss.

Have you tried printing a known test print, such as the one here (http://www.outbackprint.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html) to isolate where in the workflow the problem may be coming from?

[RafalA]

Agree with Wayne - the Epson Color Controls should be grayed out. If it is not, you should be using ColorSync anyway so the printer does not manage colors.

Are you printing ABW or BW by any chance?

Make sure Lightroom is set to manage colors, and maybe re-download the latest profiles from Moab.

I haven't run any Lasal Matte through mine yet, but my Entrada Nat come out wonderfully.

[peterpix]

The problem I am having is that the prints I am getting are coming out dull (restricted luminosity, lower contrast) and are quite dark (infusion of gray). This is true with Epson Enhanced matte and with Moab Lasal Matte 235. My other printer is a Canon Pixma Pro 9000 (dye inks) that produces consistent images that match the screen using either Lightroom or PS CS3. My screen has been recalibrated (color LUT settings) at least a dozen times in the last week using brightness levels from 80 cd/m2 to 150 cd/m2, with no apparent impact on printing. The 3800 prints are very consistently dull (better in CS3 than LR 2.3). The Canon 9000 prints are uniformly good mimics of the screen. So reducing screen intensity is not a factor.

Hey, Bob, I'm having a similar problem with  way dark (although not dull) prints. Looks like the printer is flowing out too much ink.  I was making nice prints with CS3 until I switched  to a NEC 2690 (from a LaCie 19) and now I can't get a  decent print at all. I  calibrate with Spyder2 pro. I took a recent image to a  print house and it came out just fine on the first pass,  but was way dark from the 3800. A  month ago  at the Epson Print Academy I talked with eric Chan, JP Caponagro and others  and got a variety of suggestions, none of which seemed to make much difference. One guy said the ambient light was too dark!
Now at wit's end, i have taken the printer to  an Epson service center to see if the printer has something wrong with it.  I'd say the problem was me (and maybe it is) if not for the fact  that I did make good prints before the  monitor switch, and when I took my file to the local print ship it came out  just fine. I have cranked down the monitor brightness to about 120.

Should have the printer back tomorrow. I almost wish  there is something wrong with it!

Peter

[BobH]

Hi Wayne,

Thank you for responding. Lightroom is controlling the color. The item Manages by Printer has been replaced by the correct printer profile. As indicated the setting below color is set to Off to force Lightroom control of the printer. BUT in Color Matching, both Colorsync and Epson Color Controls are available when the Print Settings are first accessed. The items are grayed only after selecting Print and redisplaying the printer settings box. The two items can be reactivated by returning to Library mode and rese;ecting Print Mode. Also, selecting Option + Print does not seem to go straight to printing while bypassing the Printer setup screen. Perhaps something is amiss with the OS but what is unclear.

I have just finished printing a test page while in Windows and using the latest driver from Epson USA. The printed image is still dull (using Epson EMP paper). I will try another cleaning and realignment cycle and see if that helps. Otherwise it seems most likely the printer is defective.

I will pass on comments a bit later,

Bob

[BobH]

Hi RafalA

When I select Colorsync instead of Epson Color Controls, the prints come out quite a bit darker than usual. In any case turning off the color selection should negate these options. They are obviously involved somehow, or the printer has a physical problem. As I get the same problem printing from Windows XP and Lightroom, I am favoring the mechanical answer rather than software.

I am running some tests this afternoon but will hopefully know a bit more tomorrow. Now for a new cleaning and realignment.

My software is current-Lightroom 2.3 (full, not RC), 10.5.6 and all updates.

THe Windows driver has many more options than the Mac driver. Frankly it seems easier to use... If I could only get the 10 GB from the Mac Pro into a Windows machine, I might consider switching for general usage. What I want is a machine that works. When the Intel i7 boards drop in prince and Windows 7 64 bit comes around in the fall, I may switch. Updating the Mac Pro to the latest machines is not economically logical.

The Moab paper profiles site is down this afternoon.


Thanks,

Bob

[Wayne Fox]

Hi RafalA

When I select Colorsync instead of Epson Color Controls, the prints come out quite a bit darker than usual. In any case turning off the color selection should negate these options. They are obviously involved somehow, or the printer has a physical problem. As I get the same problem printing from Windows XP and Lightroom, I am favoring the mechanical answer rather than software.

I am running some tests this afternoon but will hopefully know a bit more tomorrow. Now for a new cleaning and realignment.

My software is current-Lightroom 2.3 (full, not RC), 10.5.6 and all updates.

THe Windows driver has many more options than the Mac driver. Frankly it seems easier to use... If I could only get the 10 GB from the Mac Pro into a Windows machine, I might consider switching for general usage. What I want is a machine that works. When the Intel i7 boards drop in prince and Windows 7 64 bit comes around in the fall, I may switch. Updating the Mac Pro to the latest machines is not economically logical.

The Moab paper profiles site is down this afternoon.


Thanks,

Bob

You should not be able to select ColorSync or Epson printer controls - they should always be grayed out if the printer is managing color.  There is something amiss in the OS/driver/application interaction.  The fact that you can select them indicates printer color management is not disabled, and the driver is either applying a second profile if ColorSync is selected, or is adding the Epson Color Control defaults to the already managed data.  Until this is resolved there is no way to insure the data reaching the printhead is reliable when allowing the application to manage color.  Issues like this happen on Windows machines as well ... nothing unique or worse about the Mac.

I'm sure you've tried many things.  I have on a couple of occasions found that a reboot/permission fix/reboot/uninstall(using the driver installer)/reboot/install driver can resolve things. On a couple of occasions a complete reinstall of the OS is required, eliminating corrupt files that just can't be traced down.

One thing that may be worth trying.  From Lightroom, print a known test file letting the PRINTER manage color.  Use the ColorSync option in Color Matching and set the correct profile in the popup.  This should yield an acceptable print, since the only difference is the use of Apples CMM engine instead of Adobe's ACE engine.  You might also try printing a something from Preview using the same settings.  bad results here indicate a bad profile or a printer issue.

[Ralph Eisenberg]

When printing with the Epson printer, have you selected it as the default printer in your OS X system preferences? I'm not sure if this still applies but in the recent past not doing so was considered a potential source of problems.

[Wayne Fox]

When printing with the Epson printer, have you selected it as the default printer in your OS X system preferences? I'm not sure if this still applies but in the recent past not doing so was considered a potential source of problems.

It is possible for ColorSync to lose the default printer profile.  This is different than being the default printer.  There are many issues that seem to be related to this.  I had trouble with this just today as I was trying to print targets to profile Breathing Colors canvas to my 7900. All I was getting was 11" of blank canvas, and  in colorsync utility, all of the 7900 profiles "could not be found".  Since I was wanting no color management from the OS, the printer driver or CS4, this should print just fine.  In fact, it did print fine from CS3.  After reinstalling the drivers, the profiles were again there, but when I printed the target I forgot about the current bug related to printing without color management using CS4 and OS X 10.5.  I had to reset the ColorSync default profile for the 7900 to a profile that used MK ink so the target using MK ink could be printed accurately.  After this the CS3 target and the CS4 target actually matched.  (this is an obvious bug, discussed in depth in this thread -> http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....=31410&hl=)

This is actually a little challenging to reset he default profile and to verify.  I've never seen this affect output other than when No Color Management is selected, but it certainly is worth trying for those having problems with erratic or poor printing on Epson printers using OS X 10.5.x and CS4.

[digitaldog]

Color Matching set to Epson Color Controls  (recommendation on one site-ignore this setting;but if set to Colorsync, print is unmanagebly dark-double color management!)

That's your first problem. They should be set to No color adjustment . You should be selecting the output profile in Photoshop (Photoshop Manages Color).

Completely stay way from the ColorSync area of the driver!

[peterpix]

Should have the printer back tomorrow. I almost wish  there is something wrong with it!

Peter

Printer checked out okay. I have downloaded and installed the printer driver. Where does the driver reside on a Mac?

Peter