Some 7900/9900 questions

[paratom]

I am planning to get one of these and it would be great if you guys could help me with some questions:

1) I would only occasionally go over 24 inch paper - but it would be nice to be able to go larger. Would there be any disadvantage when using a 9900 with a 24inch roll compared to the 7900?
Are there many of you who also use a 9900 to make smaller prints and only occasionally big?
The other option would be to get a 7900 and the need to let bigger prints made in a print store. (less control from my side possible)
I have got a 3800 for the "really small" prints though.
1b) Maybe anyone coming from a 7xxx and going to a 9xxx who says: great, I love it or says: in the end I dont use it much?


2) Epson in Germany now seems to offer to supply the Spectrometer for free!! However I read somewhere that you can only create profiles if you add a RIP which is not included in the printer software. Since I dont print high volumes I dont want to pay a lot of money for additional software. Any other way to use the Spectrometer to create a paper profile? Or any good "cheapy software"

Thanks a lot, Tom

[Ernst Dinkla]

I am planning to get one of these and it would be great if you guys could help me with some questions:

1) I would only occasionally go over 24 inch paper - but it would be nice to be able to go larger. Would there be any disadvantage when using a 9900 with a 24inch roll compared to the 7900?
Are there many of you who also use a 9900 to make smaller prints and only occasionally big?
The other option would be to get a 7900 and the need to let bigger prints made in a print store. (less control from my side possible)
I have got a 3800 for the "really small" prints though.
1b) Maybe anyone coming from a 7xxx and going to a 9xxx who says: great, I love it or says: in the end I dont use it much?


2) Epson in Germany now seems to offer to supply the Spectrometer for free!! However I read somewhere that you can only create profiles if you add a RIP which is not included in the printer software. Since I dont print high volumes I dont want to pay a lot of money for additional software. Any other way to use the Spectrometer to create a paper profile? Or any good "cheapy software"

Thanks a lot, Tom

Tom,

What price for a 7900 or 9900 including the Spectrometer did they mention?  Is that the Spectro unit that will be attached to the printer?
Whether the extra spectrometer (with or without software) is not needed when you print low volume is debatable.
Low volume to me means less speed needed, smaller carts and a printer system that can stay idle without problems.
You wouldn't need two printers either then as a 7900 or 9900 (or similar models) will print the 3800 sizes as nice or better.
But the use of several media choices including third party papers makes a spectro convenient or even necessary.
Then there is the question whether it could be a manual or integrated unit + the price of the software to drive it.
Of course the 3800 is easier when you print more sheets in one run. With Qimage it is however easy to nest more images on the roll.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[neil snape]

Well the 3800 has tray feed so that is a good reason to keep it.


I don't have a 9900. I would like to though. Why?

Unequalled print quality on most surfaces. Roll feed load system is a blessing. Production quality.
IF you have the spectro if it could export CGATS text file you could effectively massage the data to build profiles for whatever you like. I don't know for sure if you can yet.

I currently have a 24" Z3200 but regret not having the 44" . Once you have it there you will use it, gang printing, especially with Qimage makes life easy, and painless with the larger size.

Even if you make a few prints at 44" this will add up to the difference for the 9900. I wouldn't hesitate for a second>go for the bigger model. Try to find some clients needing prints and you're all set.

[paratom]

Tom,

What price for a 7900 or 9900 including the Spectrometer did they mention?  Is that the Spectro unit that will be attached to the printer?
Whether the extra spectrometer (with or without software) is not needed when you print low volume is debatable.
Low volume to me means less speed needed, smaller carts and a printer system that can stay idle without problems.
You wouldn't need two printers either then as a 7900 or 9900 (or similar models) will print the 3800 sizes as nice or better.
But the use of several media choices including third party papers makes a spectro convenient or even necessary.
Then there is the question whether it could be a manual or integrated unit + the price of the software to drive it.
Of course the 3800 is easier when you print more sheets in one run. With Qimage it is however easy to nest more images on the roll.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

Thank you Ernst, this is the integrated Spectrometer which costs normally about 1000 € but should now be included for no additional cost.
The list prices including 19% VAT are: http://www.epson.de/internetLive/dctm/cont..._inkjet_printer
Then you get 500+VAT€ of a 7900 or 1000+VAT€ discount for a 9900.
In the end it would be 2850€ +VATfor a 7900 or 5000€ +VATfor a 9900 including the Spectrometer - if I understand correct.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Thank you Ernst, this is the integrated Spectrometer which costs normally about 1000 € but should now be included for no additional cost.
The list prices including 19% VAT are: http://www.epson.de/internetLive/dctm/cont..._inkjet_printer
Then you get 500+VAT€ of a 7900 or 1000+VAT€ discount for a 9900.
In the end it would be 2850€ +VATfor a 7900 or 5000€ +VATfor a 9900 including the Spectrometer - if I understand correct.

Looks like your few prints beyond 24" wil have in total a price tag of 2150 € excl VAT :-)  The difference is steep.
I had the impression the normal spectro upgrade was more expensive but this may be just the hardware. So you have to find out whether the spectro needs more software to make the profiles it is intended for, experts say a normal user doesn't need it for calibration on an Epson. If it at least exports the measuring data you still need a profile creation program to import the data. Would be nice to let it profile the 3800 too if you have no tools for that one already.

Edit:

Reading the link conditions I see the 7900 advertised for 4754 Euro (including 19% VAT I expect), a 500 Euro trade in rebate but the Spectroproofer as optional and an end date for the rebate at March 31. Through appointed dealers and installed by the dealer. Are there no hidden costs in that last part ? You have to give up the use of at least an A3 printer. The list price doesn't come down to your quoted netto prices. I count 4254 Euro including VAT. the inclusion of a Spectroproofer off list doesn't make the price lower, you get more for the same price.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[paratom]

Looks like your few prints beyond 24" wil have in total a price tag of 2150 € excl VAT :-)  The difference is steep.
I had the impression the normal spectro upgrade was more expensive but this may be just the hardware. So you have to find out whether the spectro needs more software to make the profiles it is intended for, experts say a normal user doesn't need it for calibration on an Epson. If it at least exports the measuring data you still need a profile creation program to import the data. Would be nice to let it profile the 3800 too if you have no tools for that one already.

Edit:

Reading the link conditions I see the 7900 advertised for 4754 Euro (including 19% VAT I expect), a 500 Euro trade in rebate but the Spectroproofer as optional and an end date for the rebate at March 31. Through appointed dealers and installed by the dealer. Are there no hidden costs in that last part ? You have to give up the use of at least an A3 printer. The list price doesn't come down to your quoted netto prices. I count 4254 Euro including VAT. the inclusion of a Spectroproofer off list doesn't make the price lower, you get more for the same price.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

you have to give up on an A3 printer, but you can keep that printer (we also do have plenty at our company).
You get some lower prices than those listed on the Epson-Website. You are correct regarding the Spectro not making it cheaper. The trade in seems to last until June 30 now.

[Farmer]

I wouldn't recommend the spectroproofer as being necessary or particularly useful for a photographer.  It would better suit that for whom FOGRA has real meaning.

You can use it with something like Profile Maker, but that's not a cheap piece of software and it's not really documented how to make use of it in that manner (but you definitely can).

[Ernst Dinkla]

I wouldn't recommend the spectroproofer as being necessary or particularly useful for a photographer.  It would better suit that for whom FOGRA has real meaning.

You can use it with something like Profile Maker, but that's not a cheap piece of software and it's not really documented how to make use of it in that manner (but you definitely can).

Correct if you use Epson media and canned profiles all the time. Otherwise you have to create or get custom profiles one way or another.

So, skip the Spectroproofer as it is only making the printer heavier without the extra software to add the functionality that could make the deal interesting?

Are the Spectroproofers stacking up in the store houses ?

It isn't easy to make decisions with deals like that. One could mention some alternatives with and without spectrometers to Epson Germany to make them aware of the not so logical deal they offer.

"you have to give up on an A3 printer, but you can keep that printer"
The dealer has different views on that than Epson writes in its web pages.
I see more signs of that lately, people asking serial numbers when they inquire about second hand wide formats.
Serial numbers have value these days.



met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Dinkla Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

[Mussi_Spectraflow]

The SpectroProofer is unashamedly built to shun the photographic community(for the most part). For proofers it's a great option, and even those doing high volume print for pay I think it has it's place. The problem is that the SpectroProofer alone doesn't give you much. It does export CGATS measurement data so if you currently own profiling software then you can use it to generate profiles, and it does come with a basic method for verifying proofs, but really it is designed to integrate with a RIP. If your feeling ambitious you could use the free Argyle profile creation software to generate profiles, but it's not exactly a solution for the novice. For the same prices as the 44" SpectroProofer you could get a fairly complete i1 profiling package , or a color munki, several rolls of paper, a very nice single malt scotch and a trip to vegas for the weekend.

The profiles Epson is releasing are also quite good these days. The only problem is that they didn't have profiles for all their papers last time I checked, I'm assuming that this will be remedied. I'm also surprised by how awful some 3rd party paper profiles in circulation are.

In regards to the 24" vs 44" debate, most people opt for the 24" and if you are only going to print for yourself this is probably the way to go. That said when I used to do print for pay, the several really large prints I did for clients payed for the difference between 24" and 44" printers rather quickly.

[Tklimek]

Folks....this topic is quite over my head, but I did attend the Epson Print Academy in Chicago and in the interview that Jeff Schewe did with one of the Epson folks, the Epson guy clearly stated and Jeff reiterated "that the Spectro is not really for photographers (in general) and is really for the proofers".

That's paraphrased for what he said, and like I said, this subject is a bit over my head but I can remember that part quite clearly.

Andrew may be able to pipe in on this one or anyone else that was at the Epson Print Academys.

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

The SpectroProofer is unashamedly built to shun the photographic community(for the most part). For proofers it's a great option, and even those doing high volume print for pay I think it has it's place. The problem is that the SpectroProofer alone doesn't give you much. It does export CGATS measurement data so if you currently own profiling software then you can use it to generate profiles, and it does come with a basic method for verifying proofs, but really it is designed to integrate with a RIP. If your feeling ambitious you could use the free Argyle profile creation software to generate profiles, but it's not exactly a solution for the novice. For the same prices as the 44" SpectroProofer you could get a fairly complete i1 profiling package , or a color munki, several rolls of paper, a very nice single malt scotch and a trip to vegas for the weekend.

The profiles Epson is releasing are also quite good these days. The only problem is that they didn't have profiles for all their papers last time I checked, I'm assuming that this will be remedied. I'm also surprised by how awful some 3rd party paper profiles in circulation are.

In regards to the 24" vs 44" debate, most people opt for the 24" and if you are only going to print for yourself this is probably the way to go. That said when I used to do print for pay, the several really large prints I did for clients payed for the difference between 24" and 44" printers rather quickly.