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Author Topic: If you had £5000  (Read 11791 times)

Misirlou

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If you had £5000
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2009, 06:30:32 pm »

I keep going around and around about this one too. At least I have a couple of completely independent income streams, so it's not like I'm going to starve while I continue to agonize over it.

At the moment, I'm leaning toward continuing to use a 2nd tier DSLR for handheld work, sports, etc. But also get a CFV or something for the V cameras. I have more to consider than the absolute pixel-level image quality. For one thing, I like the square. For another, I like the flexibility of leaf shutters. And finally, my eyes are getting bad, and I like the V series finder options.
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Wim van Velzen

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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2009, 03:06:27 am »

For about 4000 euros you can have a very nice Hasselblad 132c or 528c back. I use one on my Rollei 6008i and love it.
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douglasf13

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« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2009, 03:24:12 am »

I own a couple of Hasselblad V bodies with the same lenses as you. I used a cheaper back for a while, but have now moved to the A900 with the Zeiss 24-70 and 85mm, which covers approximately the same range as the MF lenses, and Im very pleased. Also, it only takes a $50 adapter to mount my Hassie lenses to the A900. The A900 has near-medium format color, and it's spectral response is much better than the D3x, D3, and 5Dii.
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Ben Rubinstein

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« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2009, 05:38:47 am »

Quote from: douglasf13
and it's spectral response is much better than the D3x, D3, and 5Dii.

Really? (Serious question not sarcasm)
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Plekto

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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2009, 06:10:26 am »

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....=29067&st=0

Here's a past thread about this - and the link takes you to this(translation is a bit off, but readable)

The link is telling, really.  The A900 comes very very close to the Hasselblad with a DB.   I give the Hassy a slight edge. But it's almost a coin toss.  And the general consensus is that the A900 isn't *quite* as good as the Canon or Nikon, though it's very close.
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Willow Photography

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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2009, 07:45:24 am »

Quote from: Plekto
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....=29067&st=0

Here's a past thread about this - and the link takes you to this(translation is a bit off, but readable)

The link is telling, really.  The A900 comes very very close to the Hasselblad with a DB.   I give the Hassy a slight edge. But it's almost a coin toss.  And the general consensus is that the A900 isn't *quite* as good as the Canon or Nikon, though it's very close.


Whenever I read this kind of lame tests, I dont know if I should laugh or cry  

If you know how to use your equipment and make the most out of each camera,
the Sony is not even close to the Hasselblad.

And if you read the following from that thread, you will see that the tester this time did not know the equipment he tested.

"Hi All smile.gif
I can only smile after reading this article. The most funny thing is that Mr Bonecki rent this equipment from us, and didn't want assistant from our side because it is too expensive. Why they don;t ask me about doing the test ??? I will do it for free and the test will be more reliable. I know this equipment inside and out. If a photographer does not read messages on the display and can not cope with the hardware. Let them do not write that it is equipment. ( They call to me during this session, because they connect the camera with newer firmware to computer with older software and start loading older ver. of firmware and they have problem with it ). In my opinion it is not professional.
I can;t believe that the files of the Mamiya ZD is so bad. It is probably lack of knowledge.
Why they converting files to DNG?? Why they don't ask Hasselblad and Mamiya guys to do the test ?? Who believe that A900 has a better dynamic range, better colors? Who believe that H3DII has bad display where colors are not correct ?? ( Everybody who has this camera in the hand know that is not a true) Who believe that Mamiya is so bad? At the end of this test: specialist of large format printer write that MFDB is dead. LOL
It is not professional. Clearly feel that it is advertorial. It is so Polish...
Anyway - Believe me, we have good specialists in Poland too :-)"

This kind of biased and flawed tests will always pop up from time to time.
Read them as you should - as funny, clumsy stories of incompetense .  
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Plekto

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« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2009, 02:20:31 pm »

You'll note that my point isn't that the A900 is *better* - it isn't.  But that the current generation of DSLRs are almost a coin flip compared to the last generation of DBs.  

A previous poster suggested that he might buy a 132c or 528c DB.  The 132c is a good DB, but it''s only 22MP and maybe he could find one *used* for that price..   The DSLRs - you could get an entire setup with lenses, new, for the price of just the DB.  The problem is that the smaller companies that used to have a niche product are finding that the big consumer firms are gaining ground fast and have a r&d budget that towers over theirs.   I fully expect the DB market to implode in the next few years as a result.   You know someday Sony or Nikon or Canon will make a DB for $2K and that's that - the party is over, much like how full service stock brokers were screwed when ETrade and the like started offering cheap online trading.

The only question is how many years from now will that happen.  I'm just not convinced that in this economy it's worth spending tens of thousands of dollars for results that the client/boss/etc frankly is more likely to not even see or care about.   Hence my recommendation to wait until next fall and see what the next Canon and new DSLRs do to improve the situation.  We're awfully close to them being able to equal DBs, so it's worth waiting until that happens, IMO.
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mrt10x

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« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2009, 09:54:23 pm »

Hate to make this my first post,,but here goes.  I shot MF Pentax film for years... switched to digital about 2 years ago.  I always figured, eventually I would save up the clams for a MF digital, or wait for the vaporware digital Pentax 645.   This site,  http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor has made me reconsider this thinking.  The top rated sensors are all FF DSLRs.
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jimgolden

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« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2009, 10:31:16 pm »

i go with TimG - some for marketing, some for making images for your book...continue to hire or borrow for commercial jobs...thats the smart move in this economy...
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Willow Photography

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« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2009, 02:15:29 am »

Quote from: mrt10x
Hate to make this my first post,,but here goes.  I shot MF Pentax film for years... switched to digital about 2 years ago.  I always figured, eventually I would save up the clams for a MF digital, or wait for the vaporware digital Pentax 645.   This site,  http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor has made me reconsider this thinking.  The top rated sensors are all FF DSLRs.


If you put your trust i numbers and not your eyes, you should reconsider  

When I buy a camera i trust my eyes and when I buy a stereo i trust my ears.

Forget all about this tests and test it your self and use your eyes to evaluate.





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Plekto

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« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2009, 03:16:50 pm »

I see no more than maybe 5% difference in real life between most of these anyways.  What used to be a no-brainer 3-4 years ago about DBs being better has shrunk to a very expensive 5%(and most of that appears to only be because there's no AA filter on them).    I suspect the Canon 1ds Mk4 will punch a hole in the DB market.  There are all sorts of rumors about it, but if it hits 30-35MP, as some suggest it might, that's more than enough - AA filter or not - to make a lot of DBs suddenly outclassed by a large margin.

A good example of this (for fun since I have some time...) is how Audi suddenly turned up with a $125K R8 that started giving the Italian supercars a run for their money.   It's a *VW* - and yet it's plowing a huge hole in this long-established niche market.  Of course the snobs and people who are thinking with their egos or just stuck in their ways think the Ferrari is better.  And maybe it is.  But it's a lot of money for what is now a small difference and mostly bragging rights.  Especially when your lap times aren't as fast.
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2009, 03:24:39 pm »

Quote from: Plekto
I see no more than maybe 5% difference in real life between most of these anyways.

I think it's fair to say that some others see a lot more.

Quote from: Plekto
A good example of this (for fun since I have some time...) is how Audi suddenly turned up with a $125K R8 that started giving the Italian supercars a run for their money.   It's a *VW* - and yet it's plowing a huge hole in this long-established niche market.  Of course the snobs and people who are thinking with their egos or just stuck in their ways think the Ferrari is better.  And maybe it is.  But it's a lot of money for what is now a small difference and mostly bragging rights.  Especially when your lap times aren't as fast.

Without meaning to derail a thread, but in what way is an Audi a VW?? The fact that VW is the parent company? If so, that makes a Ferrari a Fiat, so I think your point backfired (and if Porsche's takeover of VW goes ahead, then that would make the R8 a Porsche  )
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Plekto

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« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2009, 03:50:38 pm »

Heh - I did put it in asterisks.  The point was that to hear the snobs talk about the R8, you'll hear them go on and on about how "it's really a VW"(or you also hear "That thing's a piece of junk VW").  Well, whatever it really is, sign me up.    

Yet the funny thing is that DB makers seem oblivious to the looming behemoths that are just about to invade their little village. Porsche has stepped up the game at least - the 2009 Boxster and Cayman look to pull them out ahead of the competition for a while.  But I can't remember when a DB maker really did something revolutionary.  Sure, more Pixels and all, but besides that and charging a fortune for it?  Canon is a slow mover historically, but then they do make a move, it's a full-blown Viking invasion.  What exactly DOES happen if the MK4 has the same pixel density as their best models - but full frame(39MP, roughly)?  

 

That's not going to be a punch in the face to the DB makers, it's going to be a flaming spiked 2x4 upside their heads.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 03:51:53 pm by Plekto »
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Willow Photography

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« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2009, 06:31:20 pm »

Quote from: Plekto
Heh - I did put it in asterisks.  The point was that to hear the snobs talk about the R8, you'll hear them go on and on about how "it's really a VW"(or you also hear "That thing's a piece of junk VW").  Well, whatever it really is, sign me up.    

Yet the funny thing is that DB makers seem oblivious to the looming behemoths that are just about to invade their little village. Porsche has stepped up the game at least - the 2009 Boxster and Cayman look to pull them out ahead of the competition for a while.  But I can't remember when a DB maker really did something revolutionary.  Sure, more Pixels and all, but besides that and charging a fortune for it?  Canon is a slow mover historically, but then they do make a move, it's a full-blown Viking invasion.  What exactly DOES happen if the MK4 has the same pixel density as their best models - but full frame(39MP, roughly)?  

 

That's not going to be a punch in the face to the DB makers, it's going to be a flaming spiked 2x4 upside their heads.


If you just see a 5% difference, then you see white when I see black and this discussion is a lost case  

There is a lot I like more about my D3 than my H3DII-31 - LCD, speed, AF, high ISO etc.
But IQ is WAY better from the Hasselblad.

And I have yet to see any significant difference in IQ between D3 and D3X.

If/when Canon comes with a MK4 with 30+ MP, they need a set of new lenses to back it up.

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yaya

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« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2009, 04:14:25 am »

A lamborgini is an Audi, which is a VW, which in actual fact...is a Porsche...this, I think, puts the car analogy more into perspective....

What bothers me, is that cameras, at least for pros, should be looked at as Volvo trucks Vs DAF trucks, meaning tools for work and not toys for carrying golf clubs on the weekend....

And anyway even the R8 has 2 wheels too many.....
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Carsten W

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« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2009, 04:33:42 am »

Quote from: yaya
And anyway even the R8 has 2 wheels too many.....

What do you ride, Yair?
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yaya

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« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2009, 05:01:21 am »

Quote from: carstenw
What do you ride, Yair?

You're touching a sensitive nerve there Carsten  

Been on bikes since I was 16 and unfortunately a 125cc scooter is all I have at the moment (which is great fun BTW) - hopefully this in only a temporary setback  
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Carsten W

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« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2009, 06:23:47 am »

Quote from: yaya
You're touching a sensitive nerve there Carsten  

Been on bikes since I was 16 and unfortunately a 125cc scooter is all I have at the moment (which is great fun BTW) - hopefully this in only a temporary setback

Well, that is not nearly as sensitive as my situation: I have no bike. I have never owned a car, but have owned 4 bikes through the years. My last was a hair-on-the-chest Suzuki TL1000S which would wheelie with no provocation. My next, if there is one, will probably be an older Ducati 900CR, which I have wanted since it came out. Or, if my girlfriend gets interested in being on the back, probably a BMW R1100S.
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E_Edwards

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« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2009, 07:04:23 am »

Quote from: yaya
You're touching a sensitive nerve there Carsten  

Been on bikes since I was 16 and unfortunately a 125cc scooter is all I have at the moment (which is great fun BTW) - hopefully this in only a temporary setback

Yair,

A scooter?

When you came to my studio carrying that big helmet, I though...this guy is into big bikes, 1000cc minimum.

Now it turns out you ride a piddly little scooter!

I think, Yair, you've gone down in my esteem, and next time I buy a Leaf back, I'm going to haggle like mad and give you a hard time!  


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yaya

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« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2009, 08:53:57 am »

Quote from: E_Edwards
Yair,

A scooter?

When you came to my studio carrying that big helmet, I though...this guy is into big bikes, 1000cc minimum.

Now it turns out you ride a piddly little scooter!

I think, Yair, you've gone down in my esteem, and next time I buy a Leaf back, I'm going to haggle like mad and give you a hard time!

Well at the time I had a Honda CB900...over the years I think I had more than 20 bikes...anything from a BSA M42 (with a sidecar) to a GSX1100R...when I grow up I want to have a Speed Triple...
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