Tone and histogram

[Tim Gray]

It's not your exposure - the exposure will position the "narrow hill" of the histogram towards the left or right, but won't really spread it out. Here's an article...

[didger]

Exactly, photographing a polar bear in a snowstorm or photographing a fine grained sheet of perfectly lit perfectly uniform color and grain paper won't give you a wide histogram; more like one tall sharp spike.  You can spread a narrow histogram to the edges in ARC raw conversion, however, though you need to temper this with visual feedback to see that your perceived tonal values don't change in an unfavorable way (like the whole image looks too light or shadows too dark).

For all such considerations I use the eyeballs more and what's behind the eyeballs less.  It's not an issue of a particular histogram shape being superior.  The issue is that scenes with little contrast and tonal range are not generally very pleasing.  You don't need to look at a histogram to see this.

[dlashier]

> trying to learn how to use the histogram in planning shots and exposing them

Your best bet with compressed shots is to just roughly center them, then tighten the ends in levels in either your raw converter or in Photoshop. This will spread the tonality (increasing contrast).

- DL

[howardbatt]

Well, Howard, I doubt I can enlighten you - I probably chose a poor analogy when I said "giant soft box."  What I meant was that the light is good, it's bright and it's even.  I know the sun is "a very bright specular source" at the hours I enjoy but I don't get it even close to being in the picture.  So, for example, if I want a PORTRAIT of a heron, I fill the frame with just the bird and fire away.  If I knew how to insert a picture here I'd show you a seagull on the beach in the middle of a very bright, cloudless afternoon.  I don't find a problem with the "very bright specular source" so long as I'm framing the relatively small subject and it doesn't have much chrome on it.  It's almost like I imagine a studio with a couple of thousand watts of hot lights would be - although I don't know for sure.

Whether it's a "soft box" or not, I like the very bright daylight for lighting the individual subject.  I don't include water if there are reflections or anything else that would cause a hot spot in the picture.  Just the bird.  With all his feathers.  And his eyes and feet and tail.  Besides - the sea birds in my area like being out in the sun.  Not as many photographers bothering them.   :cool:

Howard

[howard smith]

Mike, apparently happy enought to call it good enough and quit.

[Mike Saxon]

Howard:

In the Moonlight Sonata, Beethoven did not use all 88 keys on the keyboard. As far as I remember, he composed the sonata with lowest note being E1 (with 7 keys still below that) up to D6 (with another 22 keys above that). What a waste of good keyboard!

My, God! I'm becoming a measurebator! Help me, Michael; my palms are turning hairy!

Also, apologies to Ansel Adams, who was a musician as well as a great landscape photographer, and could interpret the "score" of his negatives, as varied and superb "performances" in his darkroom printing sessions (his analogy, not mine).

Mike

[Mike Saxon]

Don't know about his other sonatas - I don't think his Appassionata Opus 57 uses the full 88 keys either, but I stand corrected on that one.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make was, that composers do not always "compose to the right" or use their full "histogram range". A musical piece may be dynamically exciting with a full range of notes, but like photography, music is much more than the sum (or range) of its notes.

A Cartier Bresson exhibition came to Brunei some years ago. Many of his prints did not exhibit a full range of tones, but the mid-tones were wonderfully separated so as to focus the viewer's attention on that " decisive moment". A deep black shadow or a sparkling highlight elsewhere in the frame would have drawn the viewer's eye away from the important subject of the image. For other photographers, the tonal range creates the impact, and deep blacks and white specular highlights are vital to the beauty of their images.

So it all depends; I would use the histogram as an aid, but use my eye as the final arbitrer for a photograph.

Mike

[howardbatt]

When I photograph sea birds for "portraits" I like to take them when everybody says I shouldn't - between 11 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon.  That's when the giant softbox in the sky is at its best and the light is very even.  When I do it right, the bird is sharply focused and the picture is very rich in detail.

However - most times my histogram is crushed to the center - the left 15-20% and the right 10-15% are bare.  I'm happy with the picture but I wonder about the histogram.  I think the reason is there are no real highlights or shadows.  On the other hand, it could be my exposure.  There's plenty of contrast in the colors of the feathers - a blue heron, for instance, has a very nice blue with black and white.  The black mating feather at the back of his head is set off against the white feathers of the top of his head.

Purely academic, I suppose - but I'm really trying to learn how to use the histogram in planning shots and exposing them properly.  Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks
Howard Batt

[Lisa Nikodym]

I think the reason is there are no real highlights or shadows.

Bingo.  That's it precisely.  Not all photos need to have a histogram that covers the range - a polar bear on ice will clump narrowly near the right hand side, a black cat in a coal cellar will clump narrowly near the left hand side, and a mostly medium-brightness bird against a medium-brightness sky will clump narrowly near the middle.  Nothing wrong with that.

Lisa

[howardbatt]

Thanks very much.  I'm new to a lot of this and am both fascinated and amazed at what can be done with a modern camera and photoshop.  It used to be I'd walk three miles barefoot in the snow hauling a forty pound camera and tripod just so .....

[howard smith]

I don't wish to argue your statement or results.  But you made a statement I just don't understand, either from what I see or have been taught.  

"... between 11 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon.  That's when the giant softbox in the sky is at its best and the light is very even."

The sky is a giant soft box then, but there is a very bright specular light source right near the center.  I see what you describe on overcast days, just before sunrise, just after sunset and in open shade.  Can you enlighten me?

[howard smith]

OK, I think I se now.  Maybe "sofbox" was what threw me off.  Also, your seagull is sitting on top of a big reflector (beach) that fills shadows from the specular source (along with the sky).  A predominantly diffuse subject (bird feathers) probably helps too.

[Mike Saxon]

" ... I'm happy with the picture but I wonder about the histogram..."

Howard: how happy do you think Beethoven was, composing a Piano Sonata, knowing that he did NOT utilise ALL the notes on the piano keyboard, from bottom key to top key?

Mike

[howardbatt]

[/QUOTE]knowing that he did NOT utilise ALL the notes on the piano keyboard, from bottom key to top key?

He DIDN'T?

[howard smith]

Well Mike, apparently I stand corrected.  I guess you win a lot of bar bets with that one!  But did he use every key on every composition, or is Moonlight an oddity?