Vertical Grip for H2/H3 possible?

[gwhitf]

Certainly point taken about the vertical grip, especially with heavy lenses.

David,

I start a job on Tuesday -- two solid weeks of ads, and every image is 8.5x11 vertical for print. Every frame, vertical. On location.

I challenge you -- imagine it's you shooting verticals for two weeks, twelve hour days. Handheld. Go get an H2 and stick a 100 on it, and hold it vertical for three minutes. Then go get a 5d2 with a vertical grip on it, and hold that vertical for three minutes. Not on a tripod. Be honest -- tell me how it feels after three minutes in your hands. Imagine trying to keep the horizon straight, when you arms are in that position after a half hour.

The H system has been out for how long? And it's still incomplete. For even the most basic of things for an advertising photographer. Yes, it's got a wonderful pop up flash for grandma's f'ing birthday, but where is the Vertical Grip? It just drives me nuts when I think about it -- all this money spent on a great camera, but what do I reach for when it comes to really using it hard? Canon.

Magazines are not dead (yet). There are still verticals to be shot.

The H system is so close, but when push comes to shove, in the real world, the empty facets of your system are driving photographers to Canon and Nikon. (At least it is for me).

I'd *love* to shoot this job on the H, but it's just not going to happen. I just needed to say that to you out loud. I asked that question originally in March, and still, no real answer why it does not exist. It is a GAPING HOLE in your system. The H is perfect for advertising, but it's simply a DRAG to handhold it in vertical position. Think how many verticals are still shot with the H.

There: I feel better. Hope you're doing well.

[bcooter]

There: I feel better.

There is always a workaround for this.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/fishing%20line?_dmd=1&_sop=12

Just buy some fishing line and superglue it to the shutter release, then run the line down your pants leg to your big toe.

Tap the toe, take the shot, though a few things you should be aware of.

1.  Do not play any Latin Music on set.  That toe tapping will get you out of sync with the models.

2.  Do not walk around with the camera  and a fresh cf card or you will fire 2,000 frames before your ready.  

3.  Be very careful about how you position that fishing line down the pants leg or you will be like that Dolce Mode guy who wants  to give up his left nut to shoot for Zink.*

Good news for Phase One/Mamiya users.  The fishing line vertical grip system is open platform. It will also work on the Mamiya 645, though there is some extra shutter lag.

Hope this helps.

BC


*Unless you strategically position the fishing line and then it falls under the catagory, Fun With Medium Format Images.

[arashm]

gwhitf

I agree 100%
am

[tho_mas]

I'd *love* to shoot this job on the H

so why don't you?
I don't want to qualify your (valid) rant... but if you'd *love* to shoot with the H and your P45+ and the second choice is the 5D2... why don't you just use a finder mask and shoot the H horizontally?
The 5d2 has 5616 x 3744 pixels. You are probably going to crop to a 4:3 format so that's 4992x3744 pixels.
With the P45+ shot horizontally but cropped to vertical composition you'll have 5412x4059 pixels ... still the same and you'll have the IQ and look of the P45+ (but probably with a 80mm instead of a 100mm lens)
Don't want to give words of advice to you, certianly not... just wonder why not take the H&P45+ (if it's not for speed, ISO, previews ...).

[gwhitf]

Don't want to give words of advice to you, certianly not... just wonder why not take the H&P45+ (if it's not for speed, ISO, previews ...).

Valid point about the pixels, but the recycle of the P45+ just couldn't keep up with this lifestyle job. Plus, the Phase LCD quality. Plus the whole mental torture of trying to picture a vertical 8x5x11 out of a horizontal LCD image. My brain is not capable; it's 99% full before I ever walk in the door. The camera needs to HELP me; not hinder me. Thanks.

[tho_mas]

Plus the whole mental torture of trying to picture a vertical 8x5x11 out of a horizontal LCD image.

 

[Voltman]

David,

I start a job on Tuesday -- two solid weeks of ads, and every image is 8.5x11 vertical for print. Every frame, vertical. On location.

I challenge you -- imagine it's you shooting verticals for two weeks, twelve hour days. Handheld. Go get an H2 and stick a 100 on it, and hold it vertical for three minutes. Then go get a 5d2 with a vertical grip on it, and hold that vertical for three minutes. Not on a tripod. Be honest -- tell me how it feels after three minutes in your hands. Imagine trying to keep the horizon straight, when you arms are in that position after a half hour.

The H system has been out for how long? And it's still incomplete. For even the most basic of things for an advertising photographer. Yes, it's got a wonderful pop up flash for grandma's f'ing birthday, but where is the Vertical Grip? It just drives me nuts when I think about it -- all this money spent on a great camera, but what do I reach for when it comes to really using it hard? Canon.

Magazines are not dead (yet). There are still verticals to be shot.

The H system is so close, but when push comes to shove, in the real world, the empty facets of your system are driving photographers to Canon and Nikon. (At least it is for me).

I'd *love* to shoot this job on the H, but it's just not going to happen. I just needed to say that to you out loud. I asked that question originally in March, and still, no real answer why it does not exist. It is a GAPING HOLE in your system. The H is perfect for advertising, but it's simply a DRAG to handhold it in vertical position. Think how many verticals are still shot with the H.

There: I feel better. Hope you're doing well.

DIY   (seriously) How about taking an RZ left hand grip with standard 1/4 threaded knob, attaching an L bracket atop and mounting the hassy on the vertical side? You'd need to come up with a way to mount the release cable or modify the grip's internal contacts and wiring (should be easy as the grip comes apart and has electrical contacts and a cable already).  You can get the grip at KEH for $199 (a bit pricey but hey its a solution).

Here's a mockup (with the grip reversed) with a Contax as an example (sans its beloved battery grip) for right handed grip - note it didn't feel uncomfortable with the grip reversed - the ergonomics felt better than the OEM Contax battery grip in my opinion.
[attachment=16167:rz_grip.jpg]

And here's a mockup with a left handed grip - very comfortable on the hand but requires left handed shooting which might not be natural for you:
[attachment=16168:rz_left.jpg]


It would be ironic to see a Mamiya RZ piece save the day on a hassy -

[gwhitf]

So you take the shitty, low-resolution LCD image on the back of the P45+, and then you take the duct tape, and you tape off one-half of an already inferior screen? Obviously, you've never shot a paying job, with your ass on the line.

I know you're kidding, but it's truly a shame about the Hasselblad system and no grip, after all these years. Tens of thousands of dollars invested in a "medium format solution" as they say, and we're down to Duct Tape and an RZ flash bracket to solve Hasselblad's design issues. It would almost be funny if it wasn't so not funny.

[TMARK]

So you take the shitty, low-resolution LCD image on the back of the P45+, and then you take the duct tape, and you tape off one-half of an already inferior screen? Obviously, you've never shot a paying job, with your ass on the line.

I know you're kidding, but it's truly a shame about the Hasselblad system and no grip, after all these years. Tens of thousands of dollars invested in a "medium format solution" as they say, and we're down to Duct Tape and an RZ flash bracket to solve Hasselblad's design issues. It would almost be funny if it wasn't so not funny.

Having SK Grimes make you a grip using the RZ grip/handle would be awesome if the H and P45 cost less than $5k, but since they are cinsiderably more, its retarded and anger inducing.  An RZ with a rotating back would be great, but Jesus, its heavy.

[tho_mas]

So you take the shitty, low-resolution LCD image on the back of the P45+

no. I don't use the LCD to judge anything as I find it completely useless even in "full resolution". To me it's just a control display to show that something was actually captured and to display the histogram.
I don't know how much you move and if it will work out for you personally but maybe you could use a L bracket and a monopod with a ball head with friction control...? But maybe that's simply too inflexible for you. Just a helpless suggestion...

I know you're kidding, but it's truly a shame about the Hasselblad system and no grip, after all these years. Tens of thousands of dollars invested in a "medium format solution" as they say, and we're down to Duct Tape and an RZ flash bracket to solve Hasselblad's design issues. It would almost be funny if it wasn't so not funny.

very true.

[photo570]

Count me in for this as well, come on Hasselblad, how hard could it be? And more importantly, how much could it really cost? I am sure you would sell a ton of them and get any R&D back many times over.

Jason.

[jimgolden]

Count me in for this as well, come on Hasselblad, how hard could it be? And more importantly, how much could it really cost? I am sure you would sell a ton of them and get any R&D back many times over.

Jason.

me too...I shoot vertical A LOT and have a lowly 22MP, so I need the rez...


BTW, has phase brought out that grip for the phamiya?

[Dick Roadnight]

Please point me towards a similar product as I am not aware of anything that matches the functionality.

If you made lenses with some spare image circle, the Flexbody would be ideal, especially with a bit more movement and live view... but the useful feature on the TS is a reflex viewfinder.

[Dick Roadnight]

DIY   (seriously) How about taking an RZ left hand grip with standard 1/4 threaded knob,
And here's a mockup with a left handed grip - very comfortable on the hand but requires left handed shooting which might not be natural for you:

It would be ironic to see a Mamiya RZ piece save the day on a hassy -

I like using hand-held off camera flash (with fill below the camera) so I would want a one-handed grip, with the weight symmetrically above either hand, depending if you want the main light which side of the subject.

I have 4 Metz flashes, including two for background.

[David Grover / Capture One]

If you made lenses with some spare image circle, the Flexbody would be ideal, especially with a bit more movement and live view... but the useful feature on the TS is a reflex viewfinder.

..Which would lead to an increase in cost, weight... etc etc, thus making them undesirable for purchase.

[photo570]

..Which would lead to an increase in cost, weight... etc etc, thus making them undesirable for purchase.

Just to bring things back on topic, how about that vertical grip? I believe the question was originally posed with the desire that David might offer some insight?
 

[Voltman]

I like using hand-held off camera flash (with fill below the camera) so I would want a one-handed grip, with the weight symmetrically above either hand, depending if you want the main light which side of the subject.

I have 4 Metz flashes, including two for background.

Not sure I understand if you're wanting a grip on the camera or flash but how about a pistol grip?

http://www.keh.com/OnLineStore/ProductDeta...p;GBC=&GCC=

[Dick Roadnight]

Not sure I understand if you're wanting a grip on the camera or flash but how about a pistol grip?

I usually hang the fill flash round my neck, but could mount it below the pistol grip.

I had the Hasselblad pistol grip way back in  the 70s, and vertical was not a problem with the square format (would have been with the 645 film back).

I modified a pistol grip for my ELD and wire release, and could further modify it by using a shelf bracket as an L-adaptor, with the wire release... perhaps I could sell shelf brackets for $200?

The button of the wire release could be stuck to the front of a monopod, with the L-bracket attached, giving tripod-free mobility without having to hold the Kgs of camera and zoom all week.

[Dick Roadnight]

If you made lenses with some spare image circle, the Flexbody would be ideal, especially with a bit more movement and live view... but the useful feature on the HTS is a reflex viewfinder.

..Which would lead to an increase in cost, weight... etc etc, thus making them undesirable for purchase.

This did not prevent you doing it with the V series, but the wide angles did not have enough image circle to make them much use with the Flexbody.

I do not expect you to throw away the HTS and your existing line of lenses and start again, but the Schneider Apo digitar lenses are cheap and light, and from 47 up they have spare image circle. With a flexbody type design (with bag bellows) you could use conventional rather than retro-focus wide angles.

The HTS has, I believe, 10 degrees of tilt and I think none of the current batch of compact digital view cameras have... and some of us are waiting for some one to invent something cost effective and compact.

The Arcbody was a similar concept to the Flexbody, but needed a different set of lenses.