Canon RAW (CRW) pr DNG

[rgs]

Just want to get opinions of using the orignal camera RAW of DNG to archive and image. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

RGS

[kbolin]

Just want to get opinions of using the orignal camera RAW of DNG to archive and image. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

RGS

All mine are stored as DNG.  4 Star and higher are stored in both RAW & DNG on separate drives and of course everything is backed-up and stored off site.

[Panopeeper]

Just want to get opinions of using the orignal camera RAW of DNG to archive and image. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

1. Archiving the file is one aspect, processing the image is another aspect.

2. There is NONE valid argument to archive the DNG instead of the original.

3. The plausible argument for working with DNG are:

a. your version of PS or LR does not support your camera in native form,

b. you want to keep the adjustment parameters in the file. This is an obscene idea, shared by many.

Read this discussion on the Adobe forum, particularly post #26 and #42.

[DarkPenguin]

Obscene?

[Jeremy Roussak]

Just want to get opinions of using the orignal camera RAW of DNG to archive and image. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

RGS

There's a lengthy (and recently active) discussion on the point [a href=\'index.php?showtopic=15187\']here[/a].

Jeremy

[teddillard]

here,  http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=29008
and here too:  http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=29061

[Panopeeper]

Obscene?

Well, the size of the XMP file is less than 10KILObytes. The size of a compressed DNG of a 5D2 shot is 20-25 MEGAbytes.

In cleartext: if you want to archive the adjustments, you need to save twothousand times more data.

Yes, obscene.

[Nick Rains]

Well, the size of the XMP file is less than 10KILObytes. The size of a compressed DNG of a 5D2 shot is 20-25 MEGAbytes.

In cleartext: if you want to archive the adjustments, you need to save twothousand times more data.

Yes, obscene.

"Well, the size of the XMP file is less than 10KILObytes. "  True, but what about the RAW image data? That is in the DNG file too y'know.


Here's an example - real-world, repeatable and consistent.

Canon 5D2 sample file

CR2 - 26.3Mb out of camera

DNG with full preview - 25.1Mb
DNG with medium preview - 23.5Mb

DNGs with all the edit data and full previews are clearly smaller than the original CR2 file.

Folder of 22 CR2+XMP files from 5D2 - 550Mb
Folder of 22 DNG files with full size previews - 490Mb.

"In cleartext: if you want to archive the adjustments, you need to save twothousand times more data."

You may need to rethink your facts here...I wouldn't call a 10% saving of space obscene, I'd call it a benefit.

[Panopeeper]

Folder of 22 CR2+XMP files from 5D2 - 550Mb
Folder of 22 DNG files with full size previews - 490Mb.

You may need to rethink your facts here...I wouldn't call a 10% saving of space obscene, I'd call it a benefit.

That's your way of calculation. My way is:

1. After shooting and first level weeding:

22 CR2 files for archivation: 550MB

or

22 DNG files for archivation: 490MB

2. After having processed the images:

22 XMP files for archivation: 200KB

or

22 DNG files containing the XMP data: 490MB

This is additional to the original archivation.

Together:

550MB vs 490MB+490MB, all in multiple copies, according to your need

[Nick Rains]

That's your way of calculation. My way is:

1. After shooting and first level weeding:

22 CR2 files for archivation: 550MB

or

22 DNG files for archivation: 490MB

2. After having processed the images:

22 XMP files for archivation: 200KB

or

22 DNG files containing the XMP data: 490MB

This is additional to the original archivation.

Together:

550MB vs 490MB+490MB, all in multiple copies, according to your need

OK, I see what you are doing - although the '2000 times' is a bit misleading if technically correct by your method.

The problem with your reasoning is that you are allowing for only one copy whilst my method deliberately has two. I usually archive the original RAWs to DVD and keep the equivalent DNGs on an online harddrive. This serves two purposes, one, backup and two, access to original RAWs should I need to (never have but never say never).

In this case 550+490 is less than 550+550, I get the benefits of internal colour corrected jpeg previews and no restrictions on what I can process my RAWs with. I can see no downside here.

[Farmer]

This highlights that the "correct" option depends on how you handle your data.

Like Nick, I have more than one copy of my originals.  I have the raws, never touched, and then another copy as DNG which are the files I work on.  As such, including the edit data in the DNG is easily the best way to go.

Sure, it takes up a bit of space having raw and DNG - and I have it on a RAID 5, a stand-alone single local disk and a stand-alone single offsite disk - so that's a lot of disk real estate (3 lots of 2 copies), but at the current cost is negligible and I'm just an amateur - for a professional that cost should be easily catered for in pricing - afterall, it's your capital value of your business.

A couple of years back I compared my setup to the cost of buying and storing film and was way ahead in cost and far more redundancy.

[DarkPenguin]

Just want to get opinions of using the orignal camera RAW of DNG to archive and image. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

RGS

A couple of things have changed my mind on this.

I'm currently using an online backup.  (Mozy Home.  $4.95 a month works out to less than 1 backup USB drive a year.)  The problem with using that with .DNG files is that any change to the xmp changes the DNG file and Mozy Home has to chuck a full file across the interlink.  By not converting my files only the .XMP files need to be backed up.

The other way of handling that is to add your new files to the backup only after you are pretty well done with them.  One can also write their changes to XMP manually so that the backup only occurs when you want it to.  (Backup your LR catalog often in that case.)

The other thing is that my Panasonic G1 files are converted to DNG only after being demosaiced.  This is so that the panasonic mandated lens corrections are applied.  Files aren't quite so RAW after that.

Throw in the fact that Canon DPP went from being garbage to having some neat features (automatic lens corrections) and having things in .CR2's seemed less interesting.

On the other hand I tend to play fast and loose with small numbers of images (when the numbers are small enough to just dump onto my desktop) and have been known to lose my .XMP files.  Which rather sucks.

[Panopeeper]

A couple of things have changed my mind on this.

I'm currently using an online backup.  (Mozy Home.  $4.95 a month works out to less than 1 backup USB drive a year.)  The problem with using that with .DNG files is that any change to the xmp changes the DNG file and Mozy Home has to chuck a full file across the interlink.  By not converting my files only the .XMP files need to be backed up

That's it! I don't understand how for example Nick is working: does not he save the adjustment parameters?

The other way of handling that is to add your new files to the backup only after you are pretty well done with them

I guess there *are* photogs working this way, because they immediately process the images (wedding, etc.). Sometimes I process some images months later than shot; I can't risk not archiving them in the meantime, nor do I want to re-archive the image files because of the embedded parameters.

[Nick Rains]

That's it! I don't understand how for example Nick is working: does not he save the adjustment parameters?

All adjustment parameters are saved in the DNG file together with a preview image made using those same adjustments NOT the camera settings (like a CR2 preview). That's the whole point. Even if I sent the file to someone else (unlikely but possible), if they open it in LR or ACR then those adjustments are revealed as I have set them, not their own defaults, and any thumbnails come from the accurate internal preview not the original camera-generated preview.

Your XMP files (sidecars) are simply not needed anymore. They are internal to the DNG files and thus travel with them. This is a good thing.

Dark Penguins point is valid though, for his circumstances but it's a simple consequence of using online storage and DNG files, not a flaw in either. I don't use online storage therefore this is not an issue - for me.