Imprints from Pressure Roller on Canvas Prints Epson 9880

[Paul2660]

This has become a major issue for me in the past few months.

I have a 9880. When I print on canvas, either Lexjet Sunset Matte or Glossy or Breathing Color
Chromata White, I will see a pattern of impressions running on the finished print. They are running
the same direction as the running length of the canvas and have to be from the pressure rollers.

I am on my 2nd 9880 and this machine seems to have the problem even worse than my first 9880.

Over time some of the pressure marks seem to fade out, but I have a few prints that I had to trash
as the marks never totally faded out.

My question:
Are other Epson 9880 users seeing this issue on Canvas, and if so what are you doing for it?

As far as I can tell from talking to Epson, there is not a setting to adjust the pressure from the rollers,
as it is controlled by the grey handle above the LCD on the right side of the printer.

Thanks
Paul Caldwell

[nairb]

I've been experiencing this problem of slight indentations running down my prints on Gold Fibre silk and now Canson Baryta Photographique on my 9880, particularly visible in dark night images, and wonder if there was ever any sort of resolution you came up with.

They are spaced approximately 10cm's apart, are each about 1cm wide and are a quite visible pattern unfortunately. As there are many of these little grey rollers holding the paper in place above the print head, it seems that only the ones with this 10cm spacing are causing the problem and not the ones in between.

[bill t.]

I assume you're using rolls.  Next time you see it happening, eject enough to cut down to a sheet, then make a print with the paper turned 90 degrees to roll feed direction.  If the marks also rotate, it's not your printer that has the problem.

Paul mentions Sunset Select.  Around about the time of his original post, and up through about 2012, there were several manufacturing issues with that canvas that I saw on both my old 9880 and new 8300.  The problem was with manufacturing.  It showed up mostly in dark blue areas, which reminds me of your "night" comment.  I too thought is was something with the rollers, which was probably correct...except the rollers were at the factory!  Recently the QC on Sunset Select has been top notch, BTW.

[nairb]

I'm certain it's the 9880's rollers as they showed up very very pronounced on very thin rice paper and you could see it coming off the wide rollers (of all the little grey rollers, which are spaced ~10cm apart with smaller ones in between).

The same rice paper had none of these marks coming out of my 4880. With the rice paper, as it was to be laminated into the topsheet of a pair of skis the indentations where not a problem, but with the baryta papers they do still show up once framed. I'm just uncertain as to whether or not the indentations will eventually relax and disappear over time. I have a particularly picky customer picking up this latest print this weekend (which is a replacement for other mounting reasons, the original having come off a 9900 two years ago which has no indentations at this time after two years in a frame). I have another night image which was framed almost a month ago and you can still see the indentations, but I cannot tell if they've receded as I never made a point of recording how bad they were at the time of printing.

[Larry Heath]

I have a 9880 and I have never seen any markings, at least like you describe, on any of the prints that I have made on this printer. I’ve used LexJet Sunset Select Glossy and Matt, and Sunset Reserve Satin Canvas, BC Lyve, Crystalline Gloss, Optica One, Elegance Velvet, Sunset Velvet Rag 315g, Vibrance Barytra, in all widths from 17” to 44”. As well as photo paper of course. Now that I think on it a bit I have seen roller marks but only if I have left a roll of paper in the printer and not parked the paper/released the rollers for a few days.

Only thing I can think of is that you may be using a high tension paper spindle, supposedly used for photo papers, which may be putting just enough drag on the media to show up the rollers. I know that I have one but I’ll be darned if I could tell you how to tell the difference between the two spindles without having them in hand.

Later Larry

[nairb]

Thanks Larry,

Unfortunately, the rice paper was sheet fed in both machines so that would seem to rule out the spindle. I'll see if I can produce a photo of the effect, though it's quite subtle and both images showing it are currently behind glass so the reflections will likely be an issue.

I have had one other rather picky customer remark on seeing the effect on the print that was framed a month ago. Both images are quite dark night sky images.

As I was just thinking of the problem, the machine had been disassembled and then put back together in August to have the main board replaced at an authorized Epson repair centre. This was when I first got the machine and it's only had about 150 prints through it. I'm just wondering if in the process of doing that, there might have been an adjustment or misadjustment to the tension of the spring on the grey paper release lever the OP had mentioned. I don't really think this would have been done, or possibly even possible, I'm just brainstorming ideas at this point.

Brian

edit: here's an image of the effect. It's most noticeable with some form of cross lighting and although they can only be seen here in the reflection of the spot lights, they do run the full length of the print. This is on a horizontal 24x36" image with the 36" side showing on the right side (top of print).

[Paul2660]

Man this is a post from the past!!. 

I believe what you are seeing is imprints from the raised bars on the base of the platen.  These are about 1" apart and just a bit less than 1/4" wide.  I believe Epson uses the same type of base on the 9900 also.  My 9880's were really bad about leaving a imprint like what you are showing.  Thick glossy 300W was worse than anything, and my last 9880 definitely did it worse on the side nearest the on and off switch.  Canvas was the worst and the imprints never really left the canvas. 

To be fair to Epson, I had an extended warranty, which they honored by purchasing my 9880 back and giving me the credit towards a 9900. 

The 9900 creates these type of marks on Epson PGPP 250 weight.  I switched to Moab Lasal glossy 270W and most of the time I am OK, however it does seem as a roll gets down to the last 1/4 the marks show up again. 

Sorry to hear about your problems.  I had a case open with Epson on my 9880 for about 2 months, and after several different attempts to fix the issue, Epson agreed my printer was out of spec and offered the replacement.

Paul Caldwell

[nairb]

Aha! Yes, I think you're right Paul. Thank-you for the update.

I ended up finding a left over scrap of the rice paper (non-coated) and attached are photos of it going through the machine and indeed the pronounced indentations in this are from the ridges in the black plastic platen base. Which I see is obvious now, but I must have forgotten or not looked closely enough the last time I printed on this material weeks ago. I tried it twice, first with standard full suction, then with -4 in the paper settings dialogue and the effect was the same probably due to the thinness of the paper and saturation of ink through it. I'll have to test this to see if it might make a difference on thick art papers like the baryta's.

As the platen base is made of separate plates, and the joint of these plates is often at the edge of the one of the 1/4" ridges you describe, and those joints seem to have a sharper edge, it seems this might be the areas affecting the thicker papers at wider intervals of 10cm's or so rather than at each ridge.

[nairb]

As an update to this, I recalled having another print of the night image that I'd printed in September (shrinkwrapped now at the front of the gallery) and although the indentations are there too, it seems they may be less pronounced either from time to relax, or as Paul pointed out maybe from being made from near the beginning of the same roll. This latest one in the frame is from near the end of that roll.

No indentation marks are visible in the print from the 9900 from a couple years ago, although you can see the light scratches on the back of the paper from the platen ridges. There's no telling if the indentations existed when it was first printed. Perhaps I'll test it out on a friends new 9900 in the near future.

[Larry Heath]

OH, ok now having seen the image, it quite obvious what is going on.  A heavy ink load, or with the rice paper just about any ink load, moistens/softens the paper which is then deformed on the printer vacuum platens and at the same time re-dried in a deformed position do to the air flow through the paper.

I use news/waste paper to print nozzle checks with Harvey Head Cleaner, I get exactly what I am seeing in the last image when I print an actual image on this very thin news print paper. I can easily see this happening on rice paper.

Fixes?
Print with vacuum as low as it will go. Print the rice paper attached to a heavy transport sheet. Maybe re-moistening the back of a print and flattening in a heated press, to restore/flatten  the paper?

http://www.rice-paper.com/about/sizing/smoothing.html

Later Larry

[nairb]

Thanks Larry,

I'm not overly concerned about the rice paper since it ends up being laminated and for the rare occasions this customer comes in I can just do them on the 4880 which doesn't produce the effect.

As for the thick art papers, I'm going to try a lower suction setting and if that doesn't work, maybe I'll just see if I can gently file the sharpest platen edges smoother or round them off and see if that does the trick.

[Larry Heath]

I kind of doubt filing or in any way modifying the shape or edges of the upper/higher vacuum platen area is really going to fix this issue for you. It is the areas lacking support where the vacuum builds up and pulls the paper down into that area that is really the culprit. Think vacuum forming of hot soft plastics, in this case wet limp paper.

I can think of two possible options, depending on your level of commitment to using the 9880 for what you are doing. The first is pretty quick and easy to accomplish, the second might take a good bit of fiddling to get accomplished but might be a better long term fix.

One, take a strip of packing tape and lay over the vacuum platen area, and then punch all the small holes in that, such that there is more support for the paper, instead of the bigger/wider gaps, that allows the dampened softened paper to pull down into the trenches and how it gets deformed. This option might cause initial paper feed issues if the top edge of the tape catchers the leading edge of the paper, or others?

Two, find some really firm open cell plastic and make form fitting plugs that press fit in the depressions of the vacuum platen area, so the paper doesn’t get pulled down in the open trenches, i.e. vacuum formed.

That is what ultimately going on here, vacuum forming of the softened paper.

Later Larry

[nairb]

Thanks Larry,

Though I'm not at all concerned about the thin rice paper issue. It's extremely rare that I'd ever have to run it through and when I do I'll just use the 4880 as those prints are no more than 12 inches and it doesn't produce the effect.

My idea of filing was to prevent the creases forming on thick papers like Ilford Gold fiber silk/canson baryta which only leaves fine, subtle marks at roughly 10cm intervals or so (and corresponding thin scratches on the reverse of the paper), which appears to be an interval where the individual plates of the platen join and where those ridges have a sharper edge.

The tape idea is a good one, though I'd not at all look forward to removing that tape at some point. Especially if it had been on there for a long time.