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Author Topic: Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question  (Read 8556 times)

paratom

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« on: March 16, 2009, 04:55:26 am »

I am interested in the AF version of these two lenses (Xenotar 150 vs 180).
Has anybody experience with both of them?
Main use would be for portrait things. I have read some positive comments about the 180 but havent heard anything about the 150 AF-Xenotar.
Thanks for any feedback.
Regards, Tom
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Graham Mitchell

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 07:27:17 am »

well, I have both, but the manual versions, and I don't know if my comments apply because I don't know whether they are the same optics. If someone can answer that, maybe I can help.
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JerryReed

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 08:07:42 am »

Quote from: foto-z
well, I have both, but the manual versions, and I don't know if my comments apply because I don't know whether they are the same optics. If someone can answer that, maybe I can help.

Graham,

The listing in the SINAR and LEAF company information state that the AFD versions, while having the same optical design, have superior resolution, because they are hand selected to provide a minimum of (I wish I could remember the stated number of line pairs) line pairs - a value higher than the AF versions of the lens.  This is not a precise response to the question of manual focus versus AF, but by inference one might reason that the lens design, if still extant in the newest version, the AFD, would likely be the version of the Manual, AF and AFD.  Perhaps, my reasoning is a bit sloppy.  I just purchased the 180 F 2.8 AFD and find it to be a nice sharp lens.

I have been unable to find the 150 F4 AFD anywhere.

JR
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 08:10:48 am by JerryReed »
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paratom

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 08:41:49 am »

Quote from: JerryReed
Graham,

The listing in the SINAR and LEAF company information state that the AFD versions, while having the same optical design, have superior resolution, because they are hand selected to provide a minimum of (I wish I could remember the stated number of line pairs) line pairs - a value higher than the AF versions of the lens.  This is not a precise response to the question of manual focus versus AF, but by inference one might reason that the lens design, if still extant in the newest version, the AFD, would likely be the version of the Manual, AF and AFD.  Perhaps, my reasoning is a bit sloppy.  I just purchased the 180 F 2.8 AFD and find it to be a nice sharp lens.

I have been unable to find the 150 F4 AFD anywhere.

JR

Thanks JR,
do you have maybe some sample images taken with the 180/2.8 AFD.

Graham, how would you say do the 2 manual version compare?

Thanks, Tom
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Graham Mitchell

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 08:49:27 am »

Here was a quick test I did ages ago in my old kitchen  (ignore colour temp variations)


Zeiss 150mm f4 at f4


Zeiss 150mm f4 at f8


Schneider 180mm f2.8 at f2.8


Schneider 180mm f2.8 at f8


Crop from Schneider 180mm f2.8 at f8 (no sharpening applied)
« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 08:50:12 am by foto-z »
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Khun_K

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 10:51:58 am »

Quote from: paratom
I am interested in the AF version of these two lenses (Xenotar 150 vs 180).
Has anybody experience with both of them?
Main use would be for portrait things. I have read some positive comments about the 180 but havent heard anything about the 150 AF-Xenotar.
Thanks for any feedback.
Regards, Tom
I have the 180/2.8 previously for my 6008 and it is one of my favorite lens, but I have never tried it for digital backs, and later I sold it. I then use the 180/2.8 AF version for Hy6 and eMotion 75LV, and it is without doubt among the best portrait lens of its focal length in medium format. The 180/2.8AF is very fast, I think it is faster than my other medium format system, ie. the Contax or H3D system, although it is a fast and heavy lens, and somehow it has a little noisier, but it is well compensate the beautiful image it produce. To me, Hy6 is a beautiful system with wonderful optics. We have lost the Contax and would be sad to see it follow the same direction.
Regards, K
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paratom

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2009, 10:58:32 am »

Quote from: xinchenc
150mm AFD has not been in mass production.

150mm and 180mm lens have different perspective. that is why they are born.

for an ideal afi system, the full lens line should be: 35mm AFD (Zeiss?), 50mm AFD, 80mm AFD, 120mm AFD (Zeiss?), 150mm AFD, 180mm AFD, 1.4x AF converter, 90mm marco or 150mm marco.

Xin

Xin,
I guess that I can not afford the "ideal lens line".
I do use 40 Schneider, 80 AF-Xenotar and 110 Zeiss.
I would like to add one AF-lens in the 150-180 range.
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Graham Mitchell

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 12:52:18 pm »

One more thing to consider with respect to the manual versions (probably the latest versions too). The 150mm is a lot more compact and lighter.
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EricWHiss

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2009, 03:14:42 pm »

I've not used the AF versions of either, but have both the 180/2.8 and the 150mm f/4 (schneider) - actually I also have the 150mm apo macro too.

All three are very nice optics.  The advantage of the 180 is the faster glass and it indeed is wonderful for portraits.  At least on the manual version the focusing action is just a delight - very smooth and its quite easy to hit focus.  With single point AF I can't see how much I'd be using the AF feature anyhow.   This lens works very well with the 1.4X with very little or no noticeable ding in IQ.  If the lens itself is a big large, then the hood can only be referred to as a pig.  It's a very thick solid metal piece.  I suspect this will hold up more cars and elephants than a phase one back!  The hood is my only complaint - the lens has some great properties and fantastic IQ.

The advantage of the 150 is you can get the PQS version for one stop faster sync, and as Graham has already pointed out its much more compact.   One other advantage of the 150 is it uses a bay VI mount which means if your other lenses are the 50/4, 60, 80, 120  then you could share the same filters and use the matte box/compendium.   I find this a really useful feature.   The 150mm tx draws so beautifully... a very nice lens. Pretty flare resistant and super excellent bokeh.   I have not used the 150 sonnar (Zeiss) version so can't comment.  

the 150 apo macro is different altogether and I haven't shot direct comparisons to the 150 TX  but observe they draw differently.  Because the 150 apo has to be used with the bellows or extension tube, its more cumbersome.  

For portraits in studio - I'd take the 180.  For an all around lens - I'd look for the 150 TX.


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Graham Mitchell

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2009, 04:55:07 pm »

Eric, I forgot that there was a Schneider 150/4 as well. I should point out that my comments and samples relate to the Zeiss version.

Good point about the PQS of the 150mm too. This is one of the reasons I have both.
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paratom

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2009, 05:14:06 pm »

Quote from: EricWHiss
I've not used the AF versions of either, but have both the 180/2.8 and the 150mm f/4 (schneider) - actually I also have the 150mm apo macro too.

All three are very nice optics.  The advantage of the 180 is the faster glass and it indeed is wonderful for portraits.  At least on the manual version the focusing action is just a delight - very smooth and its quite easy to hit focus.  With single point AF I can't see how much I'd be using the AF feature anyhow.   This lens works very well with the 1.4X with very little or no noticeable ding in IQ.  If the lens itself is a big large, then the hood can only be referred to as a pig.  It's a very thick solid metal piece.  I suspect this will hold up more cars and elephants than a phase one back!  The hood is my only complaint - the lens has some great properties and fantastic IQ.

The advantage of the 150 is you can get the PQS version for one stop faster sync, and as Graham has already pointed out its much more compact.   One other advantage of the 150 is it uses a bay VI mount which means if your other lenses are the 50/4, 60, 80, 120  then you could share the same filters and use the matte box/compendium.   I find this a really useful feature.   The 150mm tx draws so beautifully... a very nice lens. Pretty flare resistant and super excellent bokeh.   I have not used the 150 sonnar (Zeiss) version so can't comment.  

the 150 apo macro is different altogether and I haven't shot direct comparisons to the 150 TX  but observe they draw differently.  Because the 150 apo has to be used with the bellows or extension tube, its more cumbersome.  

For portraits in studio - I'd take the 180.  For an all around lens - I'd look for the 150 TX.

Eric,
thanks for the feedback and it doesnt make it easier.
I am not sure yet how much I will gain with the AF for such lens but I have made the experience that as soon as there is some "action" and movement my keeper rater with the 110MF lens decreases.
Just today I took some images of my little daughter in the garden and I just couldnt folloe her with manual focus.
I switched to my D3x and got some really nice images. The ones I took with my MF-gear and the 110 were ok but all slightly missfocused which made them ok but not as good and sharp as the Nikon images (with the 105mm). I am not expecting Nikon AF performance, but maybe it helps.
Do you know if the 180 hood the same as the 110 hood?



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EricWHiss

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Rollei/ Schneider 180/2.8 vs 150/4.0 question
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2009, 07:53:02 pm »

Quote from: paratom
Do you know if the 180 hood the same as the 110 hood?


Yes, same hood.  Although for the 110/2  I use a heilopan 95mm screw in collapsable rubber hood, and cheap lens cap.   Seems a better solution.
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