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Author Topic: Photography in the art community  (Read 5838 times)

DanPBrown

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Photography in the art community
« on: March 15, 2009, 12:42:10 pm »

Howdy all. I've just written a small piece on discrimination in the art world. If you've had a similar experience lets hear about it.
Dan
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Kirk Gittings

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2009, 01:37:44 pm »

Over the years, progressively, I have had the opposite experience, having been the first photographer invited to be in a couple of venues. All these venues never backtracked on their decision to let photographers in because sales of photography were so good. This includes a yearly group show at a fine local museum. Where are you located? This sounds like real backwoods retro thinking for 2009.
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DanPBrown

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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2009, 02:22:39 pm »

Quote from: Kirk Gittings
Over the years, progressively, I have had the opposite experience, having been the first photographer invited to be in a couple of venues. All these venues never backtracked on their decision to let photographers in because sales of photography were so good. This includes a yearly group show at a fine local museum. Where are you located? This sounds like real backwoods retro thinking for 2009.
Southern New Hampshire. Sales may have been motivation at the show I described, they may feel without photographers there may be more money to go around.
Dan
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bill t.

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2009, 04:36:24 pm »

In the shows that I attend I am usually one of the best sellers, and other photographers seem to sell a little better than more traditional art forms.  This is quite chaffing for oil painters, etc who sometimes allude that "cheap photography" somehow unfairly undercuts their sales, or at least that's the rationale they come up with for their own lagging sales.  That's a pretty common feeling and when such a disgruntled person reaches the selection committee, you're doomed.  But my basic attitude is...f**k 'em, there's always another show.

One thing's for sure, at least in my locality the best shows include photographers and they sell very well.  Fortunately the art buying public has more liberal views on the relative merits of photography versus traditional than do some galleries and selection committees.
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DanPBrown

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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2009, 05:08:37 pm »

Quote from: bill t.
In the shows that I attend I am usually one of the best sellers, and other photographers seem to sell a little better than more traditional art forms.  This is quite chaffing for oil painters, etc who sometimes allude that "cheap photography" somehow unfairly undercuts their sales, or at least that's the rationale they come up with for their own lagging sales.  That's a pretty common feeling and when such a disgruntled person reaches the selection committee, you're doomed.  But my basic attitude is...f**k 'em, there's always another show.

One thing's for sure, at least in my locality the best shows include photographers and they sell very well.  Fortunately the art buying public has more liberal views on the relative merits of photography versus traditional than do some galleries and selection committees.
The organizer of the show use to send out a questionnaire after the show asking us how much we made. I always thought that was a bit nosey.
Dan
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walter.sk

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2009, 06:50:43 pm »

It is sad that their attitude seems to have changed towards photography as fine art.  However, if you read some threads on these forums, you will find *photographers* who seem to dismiss photography as fine art, or at least dismiss the photographers who call themselves artists.
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bill t.

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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2009, 11:44:20 pm »

Quote from: walter.sk
you will find *photographers* who seem to dismiss photography as fine art
So what do we do then, "coarse art?"

Fer cryin' out loud...you make pictures, you're an artist!

There are those who seem to be so in love with ART that they want to establish elaborate systems of admission credentials.  Not me.  I just make pictures.  Call me what you will.  Sticks and stones may break my bones, nomenclature will never hurt me.
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walter.sk

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2009, 10:58:10 am »

Quote from: bill t.
So what do we do then, "coarse art?"

Fer cryin' out loud...you make pictures, you're an artist!

There are those who seem to be so in love with ART that they want to establish elaborate systems of admission credentials.  Not me.  I just make pictures.  Call me what you will.  Sticks and stones may break my bones, nomenclature will never hurt me.

I must have written that after too many hours on the computer, and I realize it may convey the opposite of what I meant.  I didn't mean that photography is dismissed, relegated to a lesser category called fine art.  What I intended to write said that when photographers refer to their work as art, or fine art, they often get dismissive, even hostile replies from other photographers.

I personally think that photography is as valid as any other art, and requires its own set of skills.   When these skills are used in the service of creative expression and personal vision the results can fulfill any of the criteria by which definitions of art or fine art are defined.

 
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RSL

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 04:08:11 pm »

Quote from: DanPBrown
Howdy all. I've just written a small piece on discrimination in the art world. If you've had a similar experience lets hear about it.
Dan
http://www.danbrownphotography.com/blog/

Dan, If the people you were dealing with actually knew anything about the history of art they'd know that the question was answered emphatically and once and for all by people like Alfred Stieglitz, Paul Strand, Edward Steichen and several others just after the turn of last century. Do these morons have any idea what prints by people like Steichen sell for these days?

There's a story I love about Garry Winogrand: He'd had a couple major museum shows of his work and he was lecturing to a group of curators, showing some of his work. One of his prints was projected on a screen and he was talking about it. One of the curators asked  him, with his nose in the air, "Mr. Winogrand, how long did it take you to create this work of...  art?" Garry turned around and looked at the picture, thought for a moment, and said, "I think it was 1/125th of a second."
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LoisWakeman

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2009, 08:55:51 am »

Quote from: RSL
There's a story I love about Garry Winogrand: He'd had a couple major museum shows of his work and he was lecturing to a group of curators, showing some of his work. One of his prints was projected on a screen and he was talking about it. One of the curators asked  him, with his nose in the air, "Mr. Winogrand, how long did it take you to create this work of...  art?" Garry turned around and looked at the picture, thought for a moment, and said, "I think it was 1/125th of a second."
<snort />
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Kirk Gittings

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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2009, 12:26:03 pm »

Winogrand is hardly an example of discrimination against photographers by the art establishment. As a matter of fact in the late 60's when this was really still an issue, he was one of the few who consistently showed in major galleries and museums internationally. He would be better characterized as a poster boy for the acceptance of photography as an art form.
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RSL

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2009, 03:58:27 pm »

Quote from: Kirk Gittings
Winogrand is hardly an example of discrimination against photographers by the art establishment. As a matter of fact in the late 60's when this was really still an issue, he was one of the few who consistently showed in major galleries and museums internationally. He would be better characterized as a poster boy for the acceptance of photography as an art form.

Somehow I thought that's how I'd characterized him. You're absolutely right, Kirk. Garry was doing major gallery shows in those days. I was "around" in the sixties -- early and late -- and I can tell you from experience that photography as art wasn't really "still an issue," except possibly in some backwaters around the world. I was living in Colorado Springs then and even the Colorado Springs Fine Arts Center, which isn't exactly a "major" museum was doing an occasional photo show. Photographs weren't selling for millions as they are now, but they were selling well -- as art. Maybe you didn't read it that way, but Garry's "I think it was 1/125th of a second," was a pretty potent sarcastic jab.
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dgberg

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2009, 07:29:01 pm »

Well written Dan!
All I would tell those naysayers is to go look at the late Galen Rowell's work then try and say photography is not and art.


Dan Berg
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DanPBrown

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Photography in the art community
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 07:05:16 pm »

Quote from: Dan Berg
Well written Dan!
All I would tell those naysayers is to go look at the late Galen Rowell's work then try and say photography is not and art.


Dan Berg
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They could also look here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_(chimpanzee)

Dan
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jjj

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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 07:54:26 pm »

Interesting article Dan. There are a lot of muppets around who have some very silly ideas about what is art. And I bet those that that locked photographers out, were as talented as they were openminded.
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Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele
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