Sinar

[jjj]

I heard that the H-Series lensen are not too good and need loads of software based correcting afterwards.

Some of the lens are deliberately designed to be corrected by the software. So rather and try and make a perfect lens that may be near impossible or very expensive  to achive, you make a lens that combined with the software is better than could be done with just optical solutions. A new approach to an old problem.

[Graham Mitchell]

you make a lens that combined with the software is cheaper than could be done with just optical solutions.

There, fixed it for you

[Leonardo Barreto]

So the Sinar M is basically discontinued? how come it is featured in sinar's website as one of their systems. It even number as one of its key element the "Reliability and Value Conservation" How much value can a discontinued system conserve?

By the way, can I get one for my P25. The camera is nice looking, and the idea of modules is not bad at all. It is a bit big, I remember seeing one at Callumet. Flash sync was (is) a bit slow, and it has an interesting shutter size 56 x 42.

I wonder what is the coverage of the 28mm... 56mm

 [blockquote][blockquote]   * Applications: As a multifunctional shutter and control module on Sinar view cameras, or as a stand-alone camera module with modern lenses with automatic and/or manual focusing.
    * Shutter Type: Fully electronically controlled, vertically operating focal plane blade shutter
    * Shutter Speeds: From 1/2000 second to 68 minutes (depending on the configuration)
    * Flash Sync Speed: 1/100 second
    * Shutter Delay: Typically 100 milliseconds, in the Ultra-fast Mode 5 msec
   * Shutter Size: 56 x 42 mm
    * Shutter Life: At least 50,000 Release Cycles
    * Display: Liquid Crystal Display (LCD) with blue background illumination
    * Operation: By means of the LCD with a user-friendly menu structure, dedicated 3-way rocker keys and setting dials
    * Tripod Socket: 2x 3/8"
    * Power Supply: 12 Volt DC
    * Dimensions: 180 x 140 x 67 mm
    * Weight: 720 g
[/blockquote][/blockquote]

F&H manufactured the Sinar M.

I, too, dismissed it for the longest while until recently
when Pham Son and David Klepacki opened my eyes to its possibilities as an electronic shutter.

[bradleygibson]

Keep up the good research and don't hesitate to share it.

[mcfoto]

So the Sinar M is basically discontinued? how come it is featured in sinar's website as one of their systems. It even number as one of its key element the "Reliability and Value Conservation" How much value can a discontinued system conserve?

By the way, can I get one for my P25. The camera is nice looking, and the idea of modules is not bad at all. It is a bit big, I remember seeing one at Callumet. Flash sync was (is) a bit slow, and it has an interesting shutter size 56 x 42.

I wonder what is the coverage of the 28mm... 56mm

 [blockquote][blockquote]   * Applications: As a multifunctional shutter and control module on Sinar view cameras, or as a stand-alone camera module with modern lenses with automatic and/or manual focusing.
    * Shutter Type: Fully electronically controlled, vertically operating focal plane blade shutter
    * Shutter Speeds: From 1/2000 second to 68 minutes (depending on the configuration)
    * Flash Sync Speed: 1/100 second
    * Shutter Delay: Typically 100 milliseconds, in the Ultra-fast Mode 5 msec
   * Shutter Size: 56 x 42 mm
    * Shutter Life: At least 50,000 Release Cycles
    * Display: Liquid Crystal Display (LCD) with blue background illumination
    * Operation: By means of the LCD with a user-friendly menu structure, dedicated 3-way rocker keys and setting dials
    * Tripod Socket: 2x 3/8"
    * Power Supply: 12 Volt DC
    * Dimensions: 180 x 140 x 67 mm
    * Weight: 720 g
[/blockquote][/blockquote]

I remember when this camera came out in 2006. There was plenty of debate on another form about this camera but it was a Sinar camera & the Phase platform was not part of it.

[rainer_v]

So the Sinar M is basically discontinued? how come it is featured in sinar's website as one of their systems. It even number as one of its key element the "Reliability and Value Conservation" How much value can a discontinued system conserve?

By the way, can I get one for my P25. The camera is nice looking, and the idea of modules is not bad at all. It is a bit big, I remember seeing one at Callumet. Flash sync was (is) a bit slow, and it has an interesting shutter size 56 x 42.

I wonder what is the coverage of the 28mm... 56mm

 [blockquote][blockquote]   * Applications: As a multifunctional shutter and control module on Sinar view cameras, or as a stand-alone camera module with modern lenses with automatic and/or manual focusing.
    * Shutter Type: Fully electronically controlled, vertically operating focal plane blade shutter
    * Shutter Speeds: From 1/2000 second to 68 minutes (depending on the configuration)
    * Flash Sync Speed: 1/100 second
    * Shutter Delay: Typically 100 milliseconds, in the Ultra-fast Mode 5 msec
   * Shutter Size: 56 x 42 mm
    * Shutter Life: At least 50,000 Release Cycles
    * Display: Liquid Crystal Display (LCD) with blue background illumination
    * Operation: By means of the LCD with a user-friendly menu structure, dedicated 3-way rocker keys and setting dials
    * Tripod Socket: 2x 3/8"
    * Power Supply: 12 Volt DC
    * Dimensions: 180 x 140 x 67 mm
    * Weight: 720 g
[/blockquote][/blockquote]

the 28mm should cover easily 58mm. image circle is ( conservative measured ) 70mm, vignetting appears at 74mm image circle and than the lens is still sharper at the corners than any other 28mm ( with much smaller circle than the H or mamiya  lens  ) in the market.

[rainer_v]

Very true.

Profitabilty, profit margin, and capital requirements are the internal measures that are being looked at in all companies.

EVERYTHING is at risk right now.  Unless you are an absolute insider, there is little basis to guess who will or will not survive.  

Business strategies change, industries are abandonded, etc.  During times of stress even a 200% annual return on invesment - ROI or IRR - can be inadequate!

Only time will tell.  And it all depends on how bad it gets, globally, for how long.  In the US it is officially the worst recession since WWII.  And the last couple of months saw it accelerating.  A great learning opportunity!  

very true.

Moody's   just rated Kodak at the top of the list of US companies ( together with ford, chrysler+ GM ) with a risk of at leas 50% to become insolvent in the next half year.

[BJNY]

So the Sinar M is basically discontinued? how come it is featured in sinar's website as one of their systems. It even number as one of its key element the "Reliability and Value Conservation" How much value can a discontinued system conserve?

By the way, can I get one for my P25. The camera is nice looking, and the idea of modules is not bad at all. It is a bit big, I remember seeing one at Callumet. Flash sync was (is) a bit slow, and it has an interesting shutter size 56 x 42.

Why is it basically discontinued?
I can understand it can't be improved further for its intended use / market.

What is interesting about the 56x42 shutter, typical for 6x4.5 format?
Aren't the sensor sizes of 36x48 and 33x44 what dictates the field of view?

The sync speed is also normal for this size focal plane shutter.

[ynp]

F&H manufactured the Sinar M.

It is interesting. Can you elaborate?
As far as I remember I was told by Sinar people at the factory that Sinar-M had been developed by Sinar before their alliance with Jenoptik was formed. And F&H has never been mentioned as the  manufacturer of the Sinar-M shutter. I recall I was told that  it was a Swiss small company who was supplying the innards for the M. and Sinar was in charge of the design and integration.

And I am not surprised at all that Sinar was able to accomplish the task. They were pioneers of digital capture well before the introduction of  DSLR. They have been manufacturing Hi-End electronic photo equipment for decades on their own.  It was not only the multi-shot backs (11-16-22 mpx.), it was the system of electronic shutters (CAB and CMV lenses), Expolux, Sinarcam 1 and 2. The M-system IMO is a continuation of the Sinarcam line of shutters.

Thanks,
Yevgeny

[Leonardo Barreto]

BJNY,
I thought you said it used to be manufactured as in it is not being manufactured anymore by F&H. So I imply that if is not being made it must be discontinued. This is different than changing the design or improve it further. For example, the RB 67 is an old system that was improved with the RZ but the old one continues to be produced -I think-  

Why is it basically discontinued?
I can understand it can't be improved further for its intended use / market.

What is interesting about the 56x42 shutter, typical for 6x4.5 format?
Aren't the sensor sizes of 36x48 and 33x44 what dictates the field of view?

The sync speed is also normal for this size focal plane shutter.

[ThierryH]

Correction Billy:

the Sinar m is a 100% Sinar development and manufacturing, long before any business relation with F&H.

Best regards,
Thierry

F&H manufactured the Sinar M.

[BJNY]

It is interesting. Can you elaborate?

Unfortunately, I can not elaborate.
It's one of the pieces of information that stuck when I heard it, but I forget from who.

Edit:  SORRY, if I'm spreading misinformation, but this was something I was told.
Obviously, Thierry would know better.

[Nicolas Flamel]

Nicolas,

Thats a really ancient argument which is spread mainly by the competition.  Search the forums and there is many a sample of exceptional lens performance on the H system.

You will find users of H2D - H3D systems have no complaints about performance.

Best,


David

Seems we´re a little off topic. What I heard is that the performance is good when a H2/3 camera works together with a Hasselblad back because the sofware improves the quality of the lenses?
But I have to admitt I did not test that by myself.


Cheers

Nico

[David Grover / Capture One]

Seems we´re a little off topic. What I heard is that the performance is good when a H2/3 camera works together with a Hasselblad back because the sofware improves the quality of the lenses?
But I have to admitt I did not test that by myself.


Cheers

Nico

Lens design is always a compromise.  We simply apply three corrections (Chromatic Abberation, Distortion and Vignetting) to improve an already excellent lens.

Testing yourself is always recommended.  

[Nicolas Flamel]

Lens design is always a compromise.  We simply apply three corrections (Chromatic Abberation, Distortion and Vignetting) to improve an already excellent lens.

Testing yourself is always recommended.  

OK. But does that mean you will have this lens faults if you use hasselblad lenses with a non-hasselblad back?


Nico

[david o]

OK. But does that mean you will have this lens faults if you use hasselblad lenses with a non-hasselblad back?


Nico

with the 28 you need to have the H3 which accept only Blad back so...