Backup Blues - Hyperdrive fails customer support test

[georgeollen]

After reading Michael's review of the Colorspace UDMA I bought one. Being new to digital I was confused by the manual's Backup Setup options. I've made three attempts by email (their live chat button does not work) to get answers from Hyperdrive but they will not answer. Will somebody help me out by answering my questions? I need to backup some images now !

Here are the questions:

1. Which verification choice provides the best verification? Why are there three of them? What circumstances are best for each?

2. Which Backup Speed produces the best quality copies? Why is there more than one speed?

3. Does Visual Backup slow down the backup, even if previewing from the card while copying?

4. I was told by Hyperdrive customer care that they support the Leica RAW format for their D Lux 3, but I don't see it listed in their manual as one of the formats supported for recovery. Why was I told it is supported? Many of my images come from this camera.

Thank you.

George Ollen



Response --
 
I have HyperDRIVE SPACE so I can only give partial answers.


QUOTE
1. Which verification choice provides the best verification? Why are there three of them? What circumstances are best for each?


Full verification. To cater for three levels of speed and paranoia. Whatever the balance between speed and paranoia you need. FWIW, I use random partial verification.

If you're paranoid like me, I feel it is best to get 2 units so you have two backups of your images. That way even if one of them is a bad copy, you'll still have the second good copy. AND the second unit should save you in case of theft/loss/fire/etc. as long as you keep the 2nd unit off your person or out of office.


QUOTE
2. Which Backup Speed produces the best quality copies? Why is there more than one speed?


Most likely slowest, although I doubt there's a strong correlation between failure rates and speed. FWIW, I use fastest.


--------------------

Harri Jahkola Photography
     
 
 
HARRI, I DEFINITELY LIKE THAT DESCRIPTION -- "RANDOM PARTIAL VERIFICATION" ! ! !

THANKS FOR YOUR LAYER OF HUMOR UPON THE PROBLEM, BUT I'LL SPEND MY MONEY MORE HAPPILY ON WHISKY AND BAD WOMEN THEN ON ANOTHER PIECE OF PARANOIC PARAPHENALIA !

SERIOUSLY NOW, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE, MY COLORSPACE MANUAL DOESN'T USE THE TERM "FULL VERIFICATION".  I'M GUESSING OUR MANUALS ARE DIFFERENT.  AND OUR LEVELS OF PARANOIA?

IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE WHO WOULD CARE TO HAVE A STAB AT THIS FASCINATING TOPIC?

george ollen  

[DarkPenguin]

1. Which verification choice provides the best verification? Why are there three of them? What circumstances are best for each?

Everything is a tradeoff between speed and security.  If time isn't an issue run it at the slowest speed with the highest level of verification.

2. Which Backup Speed produces the best quality copies? Why is there more than one speed?

If you're having errors perhaps slowing down will fix it.

4. I was told by Hyperdrive customer care that they support the Leica RAW format for their D Lux 3, but I don't see it listed in their manual as one of the formats supported for recovery. Why was I told it is supported? Many of my images come from this camera.

Does it not work?  Have you updated the firmware?

[feppe]

HARRI, I DEFINITELY LIKE THAT DESCRIPTION -- "RANDOM PARTIAL VERIFICATION" ! ! !

THANKS FOR YOUR LAYER OF HUMOR UPON THE PROBLEM, BUT I'LL SPEND MY MONEY MORE HAPPILY ON WHISKY AND BAD WOMEN THEN ON ANOTHER PIECE OF PARANOIC PARAPHENALIA !

SERIOUSLY NOW, IF THAT IS POSSIBLE, MY COLORSPACE MANUAL DOESN'T USE THE TERM "FULL VERIFICATION".  I'M GUESSING OUR MANUALS ARE DIFFERENT.  AND OUR LEVELS OF PARANOIA?

IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE WHO WOULD CARE TO HAVE A STAB AT THIS FASCINATING TOPIC?

george ollen

How mature. Perhaps you should try to be a bit more constructive on your 3rd post on a forum?

Random partial verification is exactly what it describes: it randomly verifies every nth file. Not hard to understand even without all caps.

I said in my intro that I have a different version of HyperDRIVE, so you should be able to conclude that might be the reason for the discrepancy in my description and your manual.

It's unclear whether you were offended by my paranoia comment. It was not meant to be - I did after all describe myself as paranoid.

[georgeollen]

How mature. Perhaps you should try to be a bit more constructive on your 3rd post on a forum?

Random partial verification is exactly what it describes: it randomly verifies every nth file. Not hard to understand even without all caps.

I said in my intro that I have a different version of HyperDRIVE, so you should be able to conclude that might be the reason for the discrepancy in my description and your manual.

It's unclear whether you were offended by my paranoia comment. It was not meant to be - I did after all describe myself as paranoid.

Harri,

I hope you'll forgive me -- I can see how some of my wording may have been offensive now that I read your response.  I apologize for the lack of clarity.  My feeling when I wrote was not of having been offended.  At the same time, I hope you'll take into consideration my almost total ignorance of digital vocabulary and technology.  When I think of the term "random partial verification" in relation to my desire to feel/know that all of my backups are in good shape ....  well, that term doesn't come across to me as confidence inspiring.

As for the caps, I was just trying to delineate my response from your reply as I was writing and scrolling.  This forum's layout is somewhat different from others I've had some experience with.

And about paranoia, I'd say every digital photographer must share in it to some degree.  From my beginner's perspective, this storage/backup issue is the huge downside to digital photography.  The additional cost, time and worry it involves seems to have negated to a large extent the economic advantage to not having to buy film and process it.  Maybe some people have the issue licked, but from what I've read on this site's forum, re backup problems, it's a big headache and heartache and gouge in the pocketbook for many people.

Now, our manuals.  The Colorspace UDMA manual I have says I can choose from three Verification Modes:  1) Real - Time Verify which is a "Cyclic Redundancy Check" (which I don't know the meaning of)  2) Verify HDD which "compares the CRC checksums of each copied file and compares with file checksums on the hard drive" (foreign vocabulary again) and
3) Verify Card which "records CRC checksums of each copied file and compares with file checksums on the card" (ditto).

For me, and I'll bet for many other people, these descriptions don't help us understand what the trade offs are for each of these Verification Modes.

These Hyperdrive manuals, most likely written in China, while substantially correct gramatically, are not written with great forethought and clarity.  I'm also turned off by the total lack of response by Hyperdrive's customer care department to my questions which I emailed to them.

Would you feel confident in a product under these circumstances?  For me, I'm very close to sending the Colorspace UDMA back to B&H and looking for another manufacturer.

Harri, thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.  The last sentence of my first reply to you was not meant to say I didn't value what you had to say.  Again, bad writing on my part.

Sincerely,

George Ollen

 

 

[georgeollen]

Everything is a tradeoff between speed and security.  If time isn't an issue run it at the slowest speed with the highest level of verification.



If you're having errors perhaps slowing down will fix it.


Does it not work?  Have you updated the firmware?

DarkPenguin,

Thanks for your reply.  The problem, as my digitally un-educated brain sees it, is that the manual doesn't clearly say which verification mode offers the highest level of verification.  I hesitate to copy the full descriptions of each mode in this reply.  Maybe you would understand them.  If you have that much time, let me know.  The Hyperdrive staff have made it clear by their unwillingness to reply to me that they don't have the time.  And maybe the knowledge too.  Who knows?

And, for that reason, and the uncertainty I have about how to use the Colorspace UDMA, I havn't even attempted a backup with it yet.  So, I don't know if the Leica files will copy or not.  And there is no link on their site to firmware updates.

If you know any other avenues I can pursue, I'd appreciate hearing again from you.

George Ollen

[feppe]

No worries, George, thanks for clarifying your words and intention!

The HyperDRIVE manual is indeed quite confusing and rudimentary, so is the user interface of the unit itself (at least for SPACE). Nevertheless, it's a good product which I've been happy enough to own two for dual backups on the field.

Now, our manuals. The Colorspace UDMA manual I have says I can choose from three Verification Modes: 1) Real - Time Verify which is a "Cyclic Redundancy Check" (which I don't know the meaning of) 2) Verify HDD which "compares the CRC checksums of each copied file and compares with file checksums on the hard drive" (foreign vocabulary again) and
3) Verify Card which "records CRC checksums of each copied file and compares with file checksums on the card" (ditto).

I see why you are confused, so am I

CRC checksum is a quite robust and widely used method to check whether two files are identical (and other functions). It basically makes a much shortened version of each file, which are faster to compare than comparing the entire file, bit by bit. If the CRC checksums are identical, you can be 99.999999% (you get the idea) sure the files itself are identical.

Is the above verbatim from the manual? If it is, it doesn't explain what exactly 1) is, and is unclear on what 2) is. In any case, 3) is the one you want: it checks each file you just copied against the ones still left on the card. The SPACE which I have shows status bar for copying, then another status bar for verification - this gives feedback that the unit is actually doing the verification.

[georgeollen]

No worries, George, thanks for clarifying your words and intention!

The HyperDRIVE manual is indeed quite confusing and rudimentary, so is the user interface of the unit itself (at least for SPACE). Nevertheless, it's a good product which I've been happy enough to own two for dual backups on the field.



I see why you are confused, so am I

CRC checksum is a quite robust and widely used method to check whether two files are identical (and other functions). It basically makes a much shortened version of each file, which are faster to compare than comparing the entire file, bit by bit. If the CRC checksums are identical, you can be 99.999999% (you get the idea) sure the files itself are identical.

Is the above verbatim from the manual? If it is, it doesn't explain what exactly 1) is, and is unclear on what 2) is. In any case, 3) is the one you want: it checks each file you just copied against the ones still left on the card. The SPACE which I have shows status bar for copying, then another status bar for verification - this gives feedback that the unit is actually doing the verification.

Harri, (DarkPenguin, are you there?)

Thanks for staying with me on this.   Late yesterday I finally received a reply to my questions from Hyperdrive Customer Care.  Here they are:

"Hi.

1.  Which verification choice provides the best verification?
They all work the same.

Why are there three of them?
To give you options.

What circumstances are best for each?
Normally, real-time verify should suffice. If you're worried about the health of the hard drive or a memory card, consider using verify HDD or verify card.

2.  Which Backup Speed produces the best quality copies?
UDMA66.

Why is there more than one speed?
In case a card is not compatible with UDMA66 mode.

3.  Does Visual Backup slow down the backup, even if previewing from the card while copying?
Yes.

4.  I was told that you support the Leica RAW format for their D Lux 3, but I don't see it listed in your manual as one of the formats supported for recovery.
You didn't specify whether it was supported for recover. Leica RAW D Lux 3 is supported for viewing. I'll have to check if it's supported for recovery, but in any case, support can be added in a future firmware update.

Thanks and regards,

Jonathan
Customer Care
www.hyperdrive.com"


So .....  Customer Care at Hyperdrive is saying, among several things, that the speed that gives the best copies is, according to their manual, their fastest speed , UDMA66 Mode.  I've sent another email to them asking how that fits with other opinions that slower speeds may offer better quality, as well as asking how I will know if a card will not work with UDMA66 Mode speed.

And what is UDMA?  I havn't been able to find out online.

If you would like to see exactly what the Colorspace UDMA manual says, you can view it in PDF from Hyperdrive's website.

I'd like to know what you guys think now after seeing it and these answers from Hyperdrive.


Regards,

George Ollen

[DarkPenguin]

UDMA is just a data transfer mode.  It has been around for a long time in IDE hard drives.  If you want more information on it you're probably better off looking for it at memory card vendors web sites.