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Author Topic: Battle of Baryta  (Read 5058 times)

fike

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« on: March 09, 2009, 10:39:12 am »

So many of you probably remember my analysis of fiber papers for my conversion from MK to PK inks.  I had decided to go with Epson Premium Luster (or offbrand equivalent) for proofing and then use Ilford Gold fiber Silk for sale prints and portfolio-work.  

Well, now I found Inkpress Baryta Warm Tone.  This is a very nice paper with better detail rendition than Ilford GFS and equivalent contrast.  The fiber look is realistic and adds character while the sheen is controlled and pleasant.  The one problem is that it is very warm.  The skies in some of my sample shots had a purple-magenta cast that I wasn't very fond of.  

For my test, I used the canned profiles from Inkpress.  If I get a custom profile made for this paper, am I likely to get a more neutral (cooler) sky or is this just a function of the 'warm' paper?  When you look at the white, unprinted paper, it doesn't look very warm.  As a matter of fact, the difference is quite subtle.  How can the difference seem so dramatic?
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fike

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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 10:42:22 am »

...and by the way...I updated my cost spreadsheet with Moab Entrada (matte) and Inkpress Baryta Warm Tone.  The Inkpress price matches the Ilford almost to the penny.

Paper price spreadsheet
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fike

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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 08:40:06 pm »

I was pretty surprised at the quality of the Inkpress Baryta.  I might even say that it is sharper than the ilford GFS.  I am also surprised that no one here has any experience with it--judging by the lack of response.  I guess I might have to try getting a profile made to see if the purplish (magentaish) skies can be moderated a bit on this paper.
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genesplitter

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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 11:33:38 pm »

If Inkpress and Ilford GFS are very similar papers, why not do a test print on Inkpress paper using Ilford GFS canned icc profile.

I'd use this test image to make the test fair - http://www.outbackprint.com/printinginsigh...i048/essay.html
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 11:35:24 pm by genesplitter »
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JBerardi

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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 01:41:46 am »

Quote from: fike
For my test, I used the canned profiles from Inkpress.  If I get a custom profile made for this paper, am I likely to get a more neutral (cooler) sky or is this just a function of the 'warm' paper?

I've gotten some pretty horrible profiles from Inkpress in the past, so I'd certainly give a custom profile a try if you like the paper.
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fike

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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 05:34:49 pm »

Quote from: JBerardi
I've gotten some pretty horrible profiles from Inkpress in the past, so I'd certainly give a custom profile a try if you like the paper.

I kind of hoped I wouldn't have to spend $40 or $50 to get a customer profile and decide if I like the color rendition on the paper.  I guess I will stick with the ilford for now.  Maybe I will see if the canned 7880 profile is any better than the 2400 one.
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JBerardi

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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2009, 01:43:19 am »

Well, we're sort of in the same boat on that one... I had fair amount of Inkpress paper that was just collecting dust until I bought my ColorMunki.
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Dale_Cotton2

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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2009, 09:38:08 am »

The Inkpress Baryta is marketed by Inkpress but manufactured by the venerable Swiss fine arts paper mill Sihl, which doesn't seem to distribute under their own name much, at least here in North America. I've been using it when appropriate since last summer and find it to be a truly classy paper. Colour is essentially the same as Ilford Gold Silk. The Inkpress seems to have a bit more heft/thickness and just a bit less sheen than the Ilford. The texture of the Inkpress has significantly more tooth - about like Innova FibaPrint*. I find this much texture more appropriate for some images than for others.

I print with the 3800 and the appropriate Inkpress profile produced incredibly poor results for me. Instead, I use the Premium Luster profile (but with platen gap and thickness set appropriately), combined with a very slight blue curve when I want to compensate for the paper colour, with excellent results.

BTW: the new Epson Proofing Paper White Semimatte is the same warm colour as these papers and works just fine for developing and proofing images in preparation for final printing on these more expensive media.

-----------------

* Long-time readers may remember that some posters scorned the FibaPrint texture as being like naugahyde. So far as I can tell, the texture of an RC paper is pressed into the paper, I would assume by a metal roller. The texture of a fibre-based paper is simply the native texture of the substrate showing through the coating. Just as rag matte papers have varying degrees of tooth depending on how finely the rag has been pulped, so too do the fibre papers and for the same reason. You may like or dislike tooth in a photo paper; you may find it more or less appropriate for your output; but it seems a bit much to pan the same texture in a photo paper that has been prized in matte paper by artists and collectors for centuries.
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fike

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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2009, 10:22:32 am »

Quote from: Dale_Cotton2
The Inkpress Baryta is marketed by Inkpress but manufactured by the venerable Swiss fine arts paper mill Sihl, which doesn't seem to distribute under their own name much, at least here in North America. I've been using it when appropriate since last summer and find it to be a truly classy paper. Colour is essentially the same as Ilford Gold Silk. The Inkpress seems to have a bit more heft/thickness and just a bit less sheen than the Ilford. The texture of the Inkpress has significantly more tooth - about like Innova FibaPrint*. I find this much texture more appropriate for some images than for others.

I print with the 3800 and the appropriate Inkpress profile produced incredibly poor results for me. Instead, I use the Premium Luster profile (but with platen gap and thickness set appropriately), combined with a very slight blue curve when I want to compensate for the paper colour, with excellent results.

BTW: the new Epson Proofing Paper White Semimatte is the same warm colour as these papers and works just fine for developing and proofing images in preparation for final printing on these more expensive media.

-----------------

* Long-time readers may remember that some posters scorned the FibaPrint texture as being like naugahyde. So far as I can tell, the texture of an RC paper is pressed into the paper, I would assume by a metal roller. The texture of a fibre-based paper is simply the native texture of the substrate showing through the coating. Just as rag matte papers have varying degrees of tooth depending on how finely the rag has been pulped, so too do the fibre papers and for the same reason. You may like or dislike tooth in a photo paper; you may find it more or less appropriate for your output; but it seems a bit much to pan the same texture in a photo paper that has been prized in matte paper by artists and collectors for centuries.

Dale, your comments about the Inkpress Baryta mirror mine.  I like the finish and I like the fiber tooth of the paper.  I wonder if I can find anyone who has a custom profile for an epson 7880.  You said to try the luster profile, but I am not sure what you mean by adding a blue curve.  I really didn't like the warmth of skies with the canned profile, so I need to do something about that.
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Dale_Cotton2

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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2009, 11:17:11 am »

Quote from: fike
You said to try the luster profile, but I am not sure what you mean by adding a blue curve.  I really didn't like the warmth of skies with the canned profile, so I need to do something about that.
So far I've yet to see evidence of a profile that actually adjusts the ink amounts to compensate for paper colour. What I do see is that profiles show the effect of the paper colour when used to soft proof.

Andrew Rodney has an excellent video tutorial on soft-proofing on his Digital Dog web site: click on the link to Color Managed Proofing and Printing with Photoshop CS3. This demonstrates how to create a Photoshop curve to correct for any divergences between what the soft proof view shows you and what the image looks like without soft proof view turned on. Part of what needs to be done is a general brightening of the image using the RGB "channel" of a curve; part, in the case of a warm-toned paper, is to go to the blue channel of the curve, grab the output line, and move it very slightly up and to the left. Once you get a curve you like for a given paper, save it and re-use it for each print you do on that paper.

Again, this is not a matter of compensating for a defective profile, but of properly exploiting an accurate profile. Personally, I don't see why an accurate profile could not optionally build in both compensations; but if that's possible I haven't seen it.
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jjlphoto

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« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 11:31:57 am »

Quote from: fike
I kind of hoped I wouldn't have to spend $40 or $50 to get a customer profile and decide if I like the color rendition on the paper.  I guess I will stick with the ilford for now.  Maybe I will see if the canned 7880 profile is any better than the 2400 one

I wish the paper merchants who sell sample packs would provide three sheets per paper type. Two to make a profile, and the last sheet to make a test print (BTW, Andrew Rodney also has an excellent test print on his site as a free download as well.) I have never had good results with supplied profiles. Not sure what the deal is, seems no one likes them nor can get acceptable results with them. I have the GMB i1Photo spectrophotometer and Match3 software (glad I bought it when I actually had money). Otherwise, seems the Color Munki seems to be getting good reviews.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 08:50:44 pm by jjlphoto »
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JDClements

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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 06:55:18 pm »

I found the Ilford GFS profile for the Epson 2400 gave me horrible results. (A colour tinge, but I can't remember if it was cyan or magenta.) I switched to the Epson Premium Lustre profile (with no changes), and got the results I expected.

I'll have to crack open that sample pack of Inkpress paper I've got sitting around and try it out. If I recall correctly, Inkpress offers 11x14 size which seems to be hard to come by. Also, I was talking to the rep a few months back and he said that all their papers are 2-sided.
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POAH

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« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2009, 09:28:09 am »

I found the ilford profile to be pretty much spot on with R2400 lol


Quote from: JDClements
I found the Ilford GFS profile for the Epson 2400 gave me horrible results. (A colour tinge, but I can't remember if it was cyan or magenta.) I switched to the Epson Premium Lustre profile (with no changes), and got the results I expected.

I'll have to crack open that sample pack of Inkpress paper I've got sitting around and try it out. If I recall correctly, Inkpress offers 11x14 size which seems to be hard to come by. Also, I was talking to the rep a few months back and he said that all their papers are 2-sided.
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JohnBrew

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« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2009, 10:19:40 am »

What would put me off the Inkpress would be the warmer tone. GFS is about as warm as I care for. Interesting that you report better detail with the Inkpress, though.

Harley

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« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2009, 04:54:03 pm »

A good friend of mine does custom profiles for $25. He has done one for me which works great and will soon be doing another. He has also done them for many friends. Might be worth dropping $25 if you really like the paper.

Michael Gordon Photography - Profiles

Harley
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