Topic: Output sharpening (Read 9713 times)

jim t · « **on:** March 06, 2009, 04:13:50 pm »

How can I output sharpen in PS3. (Is there a menu somewhere that I can't find?)

Also, in LR 2.3 what's the difference in amount between LOW, STANDARD, & HIGH print sharpening?

PeterAit · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2009, 04:17:17 pm »

Quote from: jim t

How can I output sharpen in PS3. (Is there a menu somewhere that I can't find?)

Also, in LR 2.3 what's the difference in amount between LOW, STANDARD, & HIGH print sharpening?

I can't answer your question, but I am curious - why would you want to "output sharpen" as opposed to simply sharpening the image the usual way (e.g., unsharp mask)?

Peter

jim t · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2009, 04:21:11 pm »

You need to apply sharpening again for different photo sizes & type of paper to be printed.

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2009, 04:24:29 pm »

Quote from: PeterAit

I can't answer your question, but I am curious - why would you want to "output sharpen" as opposed to simply sharpening the image the usual way (e.g., unsharp mask)?

Peter

http://www.creativepro.com/article/out-of-...pening-workflow

digitaldog · « **Reply #4 on:** March 06, 2009, 05:03:00 pm »

Quote from: jim t

Also, in LR 2.3 what's the difference in amount between LOW, STANDARD, & HIGH print sharpening?

As you'd assume, strength. Standard matches the output sharpening to an ink jet using PhotoKit Sharpener which is mentioned in the excellent article by Bruce Fraser above. Low is lower, high is higher. In reality, when we worked with people like Mac Holbert of Nash Editions and JP Caponigro, they had a desire for either a bit more or a bit less output sharpening. The output (and capture) sharpening in ACR and LR is based on Bruce and Jeff Schewe's work on PK Sharpener. Mac felt the default was a tad low, JP a tad too high so Jeff and the Adobe team provided some variations. So you could call standard "Bruce and Jeff", the low JP and the high Mac.

jim t · « **Reply #5 on:** March 06, 2009, 05:16:24 pm »

So, I could just follow these steps below?

"For output sharpening, I like to use a duplicate of the image set to Overlay, then run the High Pass filter. I set the Layer Blending options to protect the extreme highlights and shadows -- there doesn't seem to be much point in sharpening pixels brighter than level 245 or so, or darker than level 15 or so."
article by Bruce Fraser 2003

Could this be outdated?

digitaldog · « **Reply #6 on:** March 06, 2009, 05:55:50 pm »

Quote from: jim t

So, I could just follow these steps below?

Could this be outdated?

You can do it, no its not outdated. The question is, what values do you use based on the output device? The big deal about PKS is Jeff and Bruce output an enormous amount of files to lots of different devices to come up with the full recipes.

So you're getting a generic recipe, the ingredients but not the units. If you're a good cook, only have a few devices to deal with, trial and error would result in the same, possibly better results.

jim t · « **Reply #7 on:** March 06, 2009, 08:06:45 pm »

Quote from: digitaldog

You can do it, no its not outdated. The question is, what values do you use based on the output device? The big deal about PKS is Jeff and Bruce output an enormous amount of files to lots of different devices to come up with the full recipes.

So you're getting a generic recipe, the ingredients but not the units. If you're a good cook, only have a few devices to deal with, trial and error would result in the same, possibly better results.

This leads me to more questions than answers Maybe I should look at your book.

I'm outputting on an ipf8100. Any sure fire way for me to output sharpen in PS3. Or should I just import my files back to LR 2.3 and use the printsharpening?

I'll be attending Epson's Print Academy in Chicago March 14. Will love to hear what others have to say!

digitaldog · « **Reply #8 on:** March 06, 2009, 08:22:41 pm »

Quote from: jim t

This leads me to more questions than answers Maybe I should look at your book.

Not my book <g> this one:

http://www.amazon.com/World-Image-Sharpeni...p/dp/0321449916

Quote

I'm outputting on an ipf8100. Any sure fire way for me to output sharpen in PS3. Or should I just import my files back to LR 2.3 and use the printsharpening?

Printing in LR sure is nice, easy and effective but no soft proofing. But yes, you could allow it to do all the output sharpening for you.

Quote

I'll be attending Epson's Print Academy in Chicago March 14. Will love to hear what others have to say!

Jeff will cover this in Lightroom.

DarkPenguin · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2009, 08:29:07 pm »

Quote from: jim t

I'm outputting on an ipf8100. Any sure fire way for me to output sharpen in PS3. Or should I just import my files back to LR 2.3 and use the printsharpening?

The print module in LR is great.

jim t · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2009, 08:54:23 pm »

Thanks,
I guess I just discovered my new workflow.

Now If we could only get that softproofing..........

Schewe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2009, 12:32:01 am »

Quote from: jim t

article by Bruce Fraser 2003

Could this be outdated?

Yeah, by about 6 years...we now have really good capture sharpening in Camera Raw and Lightroom and good output sharpening in Lightroom and even Camera Raw...so, yes, the industry has indeed moved forward–largely because of Bruce.

Camera Raw & Lightroom's capture sharpening are based on Bruce's philosophies and ACR & LR's output sharpening is Pixel Genius' output sharpening...so really all you need to learn about is creative sharpening for effects...

Tklimek · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2009, 01:44:24 am »

Hey Jim...

Just a side note; I too am from Chicago and will be attending the Epson event.

See ya there!

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

Quote from: jim t

This leads me to more questions than answers Maybe I should look at your book.

I'm outputting on an ipf8100. Any sure fire way for me to output sharpen in PS3. Or should I just import my files back to LR 2.3 and use the printsharpening?

I'll be attending Epson's Print Academy in Chicago March 14. Will love to hear what others have to say!

jim t · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2009, 12:05:18 pm »

I got to say, Micheal & Jeff's, oh yeah don't forget chris', From Camera to print was all around a great learning tool. When I first saw it only a few months back it cleared up a lot for me. Yet, new products and releases come out and the confusion starts again. For instance I have learned that the clarity function in LR now takes care of using the unsharp mask in PS. Without forums like this it wouldnt be so apparent.

I welcome the improvements, but will be glad when things are more clear on the technical side.

Can't wait for the Epson event. See you guys there!

gvaughn · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2009, 08:29:34 pm »

[quote name='jim t' date='Mar 6 2009, 01:13 PM' post='265517']
How can I output sharpen in PS3. (Is there a menu somewhere that I can't find?)

IMHO, you can't go wrong just getting Pixel Genius' PhotoKit Sharpener. It installs under the File > Automate menu in PS3. Simply select the type of output after all other adjustments and sizing and you're good to go.

I've done a fair number of inkjet prints and web display jpegs and have a book coming out, printed using offset press, where I used PK Sharpener for output sharpening and the results were great. Only in a very few cases have I found a need to use anything else.

- Greg

Stephen G · « **Reply #15 on:** July 10, 2009, 05:20:52 am »

If I do my own print sharpening, is there a quality difference if I upsample first and then sharpen, or vice-versa?

When outputting, what does LR do?

What upsample routine does LR use? bicubic smoother?

Ben Rubinstein · « **Reply #16 on:** July 10, 2009, 06:13:12 am »

I find output in ACR more subtle, less harsh than that in PK given the same capture. Maybe it's just me. I certainly prefer the capture and output in ACR to anything I've ever used before. Especially the capture which when you learn the controls is so easy and powerful to use.

pegelli · « **Reply #17 on:** July 10, 2009, 06:55:53 am »

Quote from: ElSteev

If I do my own print sharpening, is there a quality difference if I upsample first and then sharpen, or vice-versa?

When outputting, what does LR do?

What upsample routine does LR use? bicubic smoother?

I always upsample, and then output sharpen. Upsampling after sharpening can cause some strange artifacts (depending on upsample algorithm) as well as too large sharpening halos if you're not careful.

Don't know the answer to your other LR questions, would be interested to know that as well (allthough there's little we can do about it)

digitaldog · « **Reply #18 on:** July 10, 2009, 08:46:33 am »

Quote from: ElSteev

If I do my own print sharpening, is there a quality difference if I upsample first and then sharpen, or vice-versa?

When outputting, what does LR do?

What upsample routine does LR use? bicubic smoother?

You should output sharpen at the size you'll print so if that means you'll upsample, do that first, then sharpen. If you upsample for the master image, you'd do that, then capture sharpen.

LR does this too, that is, it sharpens based on the size you ask for in the Print Module. It doesn't really use a BiCubic smoother/sharpen algorithm per say (its sort of some adaptive hybrid) and unlike Photoshop, its doing this on linear encoded data.

Chris Crevasse · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2009, 06:02:14 pm »

When output sharpening in Camera Raw, how exact do you have to be in setting the print size?

Author Topic: Output sharpening (Read 9713 times)

DarkPenguin

DarkPenguin