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Author Topic: Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?  (Read 12800 times)

BernardLanguillier

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« on: February 28, 2009, 06:09:52 pm »

Dear all,

Anyone with actual data on what is the recommended graphic card for best performance with PS CS4?

I am on a first generation Intel Mac Pro running 10.5.6.

CS4 refresh feels a bit slow with the default X1900 XT I have currently installed, not to mention that images look blurry when displayed at a random zoom factor around 10% for large images.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

dogear

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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 07:23:02 pm »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Dear all,

Anyone with actual data on what is the recommended graphic card for best performance with PS CS4?

I am on a first generation Intel Mac Pro running 10.5.6.

CS4 refresh feels a bit slow with the default X1900 XT I have currently installed, not to mention that images look blurry when displayed at a random zoom factor around 10% for large images.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Bernard

Not sure what's recommended for your model, but perhaps this site would be helpful:
http://macperformanceguide.com/
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BernardLanguillier

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2009, 01:58:39 am »

Quote from: dogear
Not sure what's recommended for your model, but perhaps this site would be helpful:
http://macperformanceguide.com/

Thanks for the link. I know about these guys, but couldn't find any recommendation on graphic card.

Cheers,
Bernard

Jack Flesher

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2009, 10:48:21 am »

Bernard,

Turn Open GL OFF in CS4 and try it again. I suspect when you do, the blur and stutter will go away and you'll be happy with your graphics again
« Last Edit: March 01, 2009, 10:59:30 am by Jack Flesher »
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Doug Fisher

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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2009, 01:23:06 pm »

Remember that any time you make a change turning OpenGL on or off in CS4, you have to close and reopen the any open image file before the changes will take affect.

Also, there is a bug in CS4 where zoomed images with OpenGL on are not as sharp as zoomed images with OpenGL off.  The difference is minor and more noticable as some zoom factors more than others, but you can see it.

Doug

BernardLanguillier

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 04:25:25 am »

Quote from: Doug Fisher
Remember that any time you make a change turning OpenGL on or off in CS4, you have to close and reopen the any open image file before the changes will take affect.

Also, there is a bug in CS4 where zoomed images with OpenGL on are not as sharp as zoomed images with OpenGL off.  The difference is minor and more noticable as some zoom factors more than others, but you can see it.

Thank you Jack and Doug.

On my very high resolution images (typically between 100 and 300 MP panos), the 8-13% zoom level needed to get full screen coverage on my 30 inch is pretty awful (the image looks as though it was shot with a 4-6 MP camera)... I'll try switching off OpenGL per your recommendation.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 09:18:08 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Thank you Jack and Doug.

On my very high resolution images (typically between 100 and 300 MP panos), the 8-13% zoom level needed to get full screen coverage on my 30 inch is pretty awful (the image looks as though it was shot with a 4-6 MP camera)... I'll try switching off OpenGL per your recommendation.

Wow... just tried that... and the difference is amazing! It feels like I just moved from a Coolpix 995 to a Phaseone P65+...

This function was one of the rare things I thought were valuable in PS CS4...  

Cheers,
Bernard

Jack Flesher

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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2009, 10:18:26 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Wow... just tried that... and the difference is amazing! It feels like I just moved from a Coolpix 995 to a Phaseone P65+...

This function was one of the rare things I thought were valuable in PS CS4...  

That's because it was promoted that way -- and I suspect it is a nifty treat for HD video frames and smaller static images.  And we all buy into the marketing hype until some of us figured out it actually sucked for big images.  


Cheers,
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 10:37:40 am by Jack Flesher »
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Mark D Segal

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 11:16:46 am »

I'd appreciate if any readers have some insight to share about the break-point at which OpenGL becomes more of a liability than an asset. I'm getting slow responsiveness with CS4 compared with CS3 on the same computer (Dual Core Intel 5160 3 GHz on Windoze XP Pro 32 bit; 128MB nVidia Quadro Pro FX 550 video card Open GL capable). The redraw of the image is visibly tile-by-tile with CS4, and there is an unusual lag time with Curves adjustments which drives me crazy (so until I can resolve this I'm using Lightroom 2.2 and CS3 where I have no such problems). Some research and inquiries I've made suggest that the only fundamental solution will be a 64-bit quad core processor with 8 GB of RAM, which of course means a new computer - ho-hum.
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DarkPenguin

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 11:32:07 am »

Quote from: MarkDS
I'd appreciate if any readers have some insight to share about the break-point at which OpenGL becomes more of a liability than an asset. I'm getting slow responsiveness with CS4 compared with CS3 on the same computer (Dual Core Intel 5160 3 GHz on Windoze XP Pro 32 bit; 128MB nVidia Quadro Pro FX 550 video card Open GL capable). The redraw of the image is visibly tile-by-tile with CS4, and there is an unusual lag time with Curves adjustments which drives me crazy (so until I can resolve this I'm using Lightroom 2.2 and CS3 where I have no such problems). Some research and inquiries I've made suggest that the only fundamental solution will be a 64-bit quad core processor with 8 GB of RAM, which of course means a new computer - ho-hum.

How old is that Pro FX 550?  Did Grant have that on his laptop at Vicksburg?

I would check Adobe for minimum requirements.  I would be concerned about that 128mb.  How big are your images?

As an aside ATI (AMD) has dropped the price of the 4870 and 4850.  You can get a 4850 for $130 now.
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 11:48:20 am »

Quote from: DarkPenguin
How old is that Pro FX 550?  Did Grant have that on his laptop at Vicksburg?

I would check Adobe for minimum requirements.  I would be concerned about that 128mb.  How big are your images?

As an aside ATI (AMD) has dropped the price of the 4870 and 4850.  You can get a 4850 for $130 now.

I don't know who Grant is, and never been to Vicksburg, and this isn't a laptop card - it's workstation. The computer is about 2 and a half years old (November 06) and card was current technology at the time. My images average about 140MB each, but can climb to 400 or so.

Selecting video cards is a bit of hornet's nest. Not all current models are compatible with motherboards from late 2006 (e.g. PCI-Express 2 can't be installed apparently, and that's a major item for speed improvement) and DDC compatibility is always an on-going concern with Windoze machines (and I understand recently some Macs as well). One needs to be quite careful selecting a replacement card for an existing system.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 11:48:41 am by MarkDS »
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BernardLanguillier

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 06:01:35 pm »

Quote from: Jack Flesher
That's because it was promoted that way -- and I suspect it is a nifty treat for HD video frames and smaller static images.  And we all buy into the marketing hype until some of us figured out it actually sucked for big images.

The value propositon of this upgrade for Mac user looks worse every day that passes by...

It is almost amusing when I compare the situation I was in 6 months ago to mine today:
- 6 months ago: rock solid Tiger 10.4.11, CS3
- now: dodgy Leopard 10.5.6, CS4

Since I bought PS as part of an Design suite ultimate upgrade, I am about 1.000 US$ poorer with little added value (at least on the Photoshop front). Granted the need to upgrade to 10.5.6 was a nice present from CaptureOne.

The only feature I end up using in CS4 compared to CS3 is the new adjustement layers interface and enhanced curve function which are both nice, although the curve window is still way too small.

As a side comment though, I have found out that I am getting much better performance with my software Raid 0 2 Raptor set up when using the SoftRaid compared to Apple's disk utility... which was mostly not the case with Tiger.

You've got to love software providers.

Cheers,
Bernard

Vautour

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2009, 09:36:47 am »

@Bernard: With the new Mac Pros there has also been released the ATI 4870 with 512 MB RAM. This is currently the fastest GPU AMD offers and also in many aspects the one of the fastest chips in the market at the moment (depending on the application) and when it's slower than its Nvidia counterparts it's not that much slower. It's certainly way faster than your card. And much faster than the Nvidia GT 120 (which is a renamed 9500GT, Nvidia likes renaming it seems.). But it has not been officially tested by Adobe with MacOS (but keep in mind it's brand new). The fastest tested GPU would be the MACTEL 8800 GT 512 MB for MacOS X (also much faster than your current card but slower than the 4870). You need to check with Apple if this card works with your hardware. This looks to be the fastest card for Macs at the moment. If it doesn't fit your Mac try to get an 8800GT.
Either way use the latest drivers.
The thing is that the only card at the moment with special driver support for Photoshop CS4 is the Nvidia Quadro FX card whose GPU roughly resembles the consumer GT 216 with additional processing units so from a pure hardware perspective this card is somewhat slower than the 4870 but with the special drivers it's most probably faster than the 4870 (haven't seen any benchmarks yet).
But the Quadro FX is Windows only afaik. And it's rather expensive (but most Quadros are. By the way: The GPUs found in the Quadros (or AMD FireGLs, for that matter) are basically the same as in the consumer products. They've usually only got special drivers which directly support certain software and can use much more RAM. But for the supported software this can mean a tremendous speed increase.).

Link to Adobe's list of tested cards: http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405711
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 09:38:15 am by Vautour »
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Mark D Segal

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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2009, 10:19:30 am »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
The value propositon of this upgrade for Mac user looks worse every day that passes by...

 Granted the need to upgrade to 10.5.6 was a nice present from CaptureOne.

You've got to love software providers.

Cheers,
Bernard

I don't know enough about the overall benefits of OSX 10.5.6 to make any intelligent general remarks about it, but over at the Colorsync Listserve there seems to be a consensus that this operating system has broken DDC completely. While this is not related to the speed issue discussed here, it is a fundamental aspect of contemporary colour management technology. It can be worked-around, but depending on the display, perhaps not always so easily and satisfactorily.

As for processing speed, any discussion of GPUs and video cards needs to be lodged in the context of the overall hardware architecture, firstly to know whether one's critical performance constraints with CS4 are GPU/video card-related or not, and if so, then to see which ones are compatible with one's system and likely to deliver value-added for the incremental cost.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 08:21:05 pm »

Quote from: MarkDS
I don't know enough about the overall benefits of OSX 10.5.6 to make any intelligent general remarks about it, but over at the Colorsync Listserve there seems to be a consensus that this operating system has broken DDC completely. While this is not related to the speed issue discussed here, it is a fundamental aspect of contemporary colour management technology. It can be worked-around, but depending on the display, perhaps not always so easily and satisfactorily.

As for processing speed, any discussion of GPUs and video cards needs to be lodged in the context of the overall hardware architecture, firstly to know whether one's critical performance constraints with CS4 are GPU/video card-related or not, and if so, then to see which ones are compatible with one's system and likely to deliver value-added for the incremental cost.

Thanks for the feedback MArk.

CS4 perfo is video card related only if you use OpenGL acceleration wihch I have just stopped doing after finding out that I am getting much better display quality on large images with it being off.

Regards,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Fastest Mac Pro video card for CS4?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2009, 08:22:55 pm »

Quote from: Vautour
@Bernard: With the new Mac Pros there has also been released the ATI 4870 with 512 MB RAM. This is currently the fastest GPU AMD offers and also in many aspects the one of the fastest chips in the market at the moment (depending on the application) and when it's slower than its Nvidia counterparts it's not that much slower. It's certainly way faster than your card.

Thanks a lot. I have given up on upgrading the card, it seems that CS4 is not ready for OpenGL acceleration in large images...

Cheers,
Bernard

Mark D Segal

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« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2009, 09:51:20 pm »

Quote from: BernardLanguillier
Thanks for the feedback MArk.

CS4 perfo is video card related only if you use OpenGL acceleration wihch I have just stopped doing after finding out that I am getting much better display quality on large images with it being off.

Regards,
Bernard

Bernard, I shut-off OpenGL on my CS4 as well, but the program just doesn't respond as well as CS3 does on my Windows XP Dual-Core (2 * 3Ghz Xeon 5160 processors and 4 GB RAM) system. Enquiries I've made seem to boil down to buying a 64 bit OS with at least 8 GB of RAM and PCI Express-2 - i.e. a second computer, leaving my current one operable for legacy products which won't ever have 64 bit drivers (and I still wish to keep using). This new software is just much more demanding of resources than anything that has gone before it. I'm not sure whether to call this progress or a nuissance or just plain overkill - maybe all three.

Mark
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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2009, 12:56:25 am »

Quote from: MarkDS
Bernard, I shut-off OpenGL on my CS4 as well, but the program just doesn't respond as well as CS3 does on my Windows XP Dual-Core (2 * 3Ghz Xeon 5160 processors and 4 GB RAM) system. Enquiries I've made seem to boil down to buying a 64 bit OS with at least 8 GB of RAM and PCI Express-2 - i.e. a second computer, leaving my current one operable for legacy products which won't ever have 64 bit drivers (and I still wish to keep using). This new software is just much more demanding of resources than anything that has gone before it. I'm not sure whether to call this progress or a nuissance or just plain overkill - maybe all three.

I am fortunate enough to be using over-sized H/W and I did not really feel any important slow down compared to CS3... but I also don't see much value... besides the long overdue enhancement of the curve interface...

I would for sure not call progress the need to have to invest in a new H/W to be able to do basically the same things with an expensive of software.

Cheers,
Bernard

LA30

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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2009, 12:22:46 pm »

Link would be good to take a look at.

http://macperformanceguide.com/OptimizingP...shop-Intro.html

Ken


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BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2009, 05:19:39 pm »

Quote from: kenscott30
Link would be good to take a look at.

http://macperformanceguide.com/OptimizingP...shop-Intro.html

Ken

Thanks for the link Ken, I am a regular reader of that site already.

Cheers,
Bernard
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