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Author Topic: Papers, papers, papers  (Read 3907 times)

fike

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« on: February 25, 2009, 12:05:17 pm »

so I have been finalizing my change-over from MK to PK inks.  It took me a long time to decide to move to glossy papers, but I am finally there.  Now I am trying to narrow my paper choices down so that I am not keeping many different varieties in my stock.  

Here are some of my observations:

Premium Luster

Paper is a bit thin.  Image quality is very good.  Coolest tone paper of this selection. Very economical paper.  Probably good for proofing before printing on finer papers.

Ilford Gold fiber Silk
Smooth, smooth, smooth, it is a stretch to call it a fiber paper.  Good heavy paper.  Feels like quality.  Seems to have highest contrast of this selection. moderately warm tone paper.  Moderate price.

Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl
Pricey.  Nice fiber look and feel, although still pretty smooth.  Very good heavyweight feel. Warm paper color (at least withe the canned profile).

Moab Colorado Fiber Gloss
Smooth, subtle fiber look. Cool tone with canned profile.  Reasonable value.  

To be completely honest, aside from the paper weight, the differences between these paper seem pretty darn subtle.

Here is my cost breakdown

The price of Epson Premium Luster paper makes it a great choice for everyday proofing.  the price of the Hahnemuhle makes it too costly for much besides perhaps portfolio printing.  So, I am left choosing between the two intermediate papers Moab and Ilford for general sale.  I like the contrast of the ilford. I like the sheen and fiber look of the moab. I am going to try the Moab Colorado Fiber Satine too.  That one is in the mail.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 12:32:14 pm by fike »
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David Sutton

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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 01:37:16 pm »

I've been interested in the same question, currently using Ilford GFS and SPP when wanting a satin look. Fike, your link seems to go to an email account. Can you post your cost breakdown please? David
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Tklimek

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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 03:01:43 pm »

FYI...I was able to view your Google Docs file just fine.  

Interesting....I took your spreadsheet and calculated the premium that is being paid over the most inexpensive paper (Epson Luster); if my math is correct it would appear the larger you go the less of a premium that you are paying (percentage) for the other papers.  Also strange that the Moab is very competetive in the 17" roll space.

Premium paid over Epson Luster in either a sheet or per square foot (note that Epson Luster does not come in a 17 inch roll but instead a 16 inch roll, but price per square foot is the same)         

Ilford Gold Fiber Silk
8.5x11 - 48.12%
13x19 - 28.92%
13" roll - n/a
17" roll - 158.33%
24" roll - 147.75%
                     
Moab Co. Fiber Gloss
8.5x11 - 113.87%
13x19 - 21.79%
13" roll - 7.44%
17" roll - 132.55%
24" roll - 130.04%

Hahnemuhle FAP
8.5x11 - 169.39%
13x19 - 130.76%
13" roll - n/a
17" roll - 283.06%
24" roll - 265.78%
               
Marc, do you print with all of these sizes or just providing the data?  I find myself either printing a "value" or proof size (either a 10 inch roll or 8.5x11) or full size (for me Epson Luster 16" roll).

Hmmm...I better check my math on these.....

Cheers...

Todd in Chicago
               
                       



Quote from: fike
so I have been finalizing my change-over from MK to PK inks.  It took me a long time to decide to move to glossy papers, but I am finally there.  Now I am trying to narrow my paper choices down so that I am not keeping many different varieties in my stock.  

Here are some of my observations:

Premium Luster

Paper is a bit thin.  Image quality is very good.  Coolest tone paper of this selection. Very economical paper.  Probably good for proofing before printing on finer papers.

Ilford Gold fiber Silk
Smooth, smooth, smooth, it is a stretch to call it a fiber paper.  Good heavy paper.  Feels like quality.  Seems to have highest contrast of this selection. moderately warm tone paper.  Moderate price.

Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl
Pricey.  Nice fiber look and feel, although still pretty smooth.  Very good heavyweight feel. Warm paper color (at least withe the canned profile).

Moab Colorado Fiber Gloss
Smooth, subtle fiber look. Cool tone with canned profile.  Reasonable value.  

To be completely honest, aside from the paper weight, the differences between these paper seem pretty darn subtle.

Here is my cost breakdown

The price of Epson Premium Luster paper makes it a great choice for everyday proofing.  the price of the Hahnemuhle makes it too costly for much besides perhaps portfolio printing.  So, I am left choosing between the two intermediate papers Moab and Ilford for general sale.  I like the contrast of the ilford. I like the sheen and fiber look of the moab. I am going to try the Moab Colorado Fiber Satine too.  That one is in the mail.
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Tim Gray

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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 03:09:10 pm »

I buy a premium luster clone from a local shop (I think they get it from Inkjet Art) that's identical in performance to the epson paper, but even less expensive.
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fike

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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 04:02:56 pm »

I generally print a lot of 24" and 17" roll stuff for my panoramic work.  Then I typically use 8.5x11 for small cropped tests and proofs.  The only time I print 13x19 is for portfolio work where the curl of roll paper would be annoying.  so, yes I do use most of these sizes, but generally roll papers is what I use most of the time.  

Switching roll papers on the 7880 isn't that big a deal, but I prefer to not swap back and forth.  That is a good way to scuff-up the outside of the roll.  (I know, I know, be careful, but the way I do that is by not swapping too often).

The paper I was using is Entrada 290 and Entrada 190.  I added them to my spreadsheet.  They fall in the $1.10 to $1.40 range per square foot.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 04:04:17 pm by fike »
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Lisa Nikodym

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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 07:50:42 pm »

Another pair of papers to consider if you like a "traditional photo paper" type are Ilford Galerie Smooth Gloss & Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl.  They're only slightly more expensive than Epson Luster, but I like them considerably better.  I also sometimes use Ilford Gold Fibre Silk, but only because it's somewhat thicker - for image quality, I consider the "Smooth" papers to be similar, and they're a lot cheaper than GFS.

Lisa
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Tklimek

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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2009, 12:23:14 am »

I recently bought a Epson Luster clone from Calumet--it's their "Brilliant" paper.  I think someone over there once told me if it were any closer to the real thing they would be hearing from Epson's lawyers!  I purchased a 100 sheet 8.5x11 pack for $27....so .27 a sheet....not too bad!  From my fairly untrained eye...results look very similar to the Epson Luster.

Cheers....

Todd in Chicago

Quote from: Tim Gray
I buy a premium luster clone from a local shop (I think they get it from Inkjet Art) that's identical in performance to the epson paper, but even less expensive.
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howardm

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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 07:43:08 am »

I really like the Ilford Smooth Pearl  and/or the RedRiver Arctic Satin.  The Ilford GFS is noticeably warmer.  I'm pretty indifferent to the Epson Lustre.

for inexpensive papers, you might want to consider the inkjetart microceramic paper.

Utah

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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2009, 11:29:27 pm »


Let's recap. regroup and reconnoiter (I always wanted to use that word in a sentence)

Current status: You are not using  Matte ink (MK), You like Epson Premium Luster Paper, You have tried three or four others covering a wide price interval, Image differences are difficult to detect, the weight of the paper improves your perception of the overall quality, you use every size known to man, you would like to narrow the selection down to a manageable number of choices, you are willing to consider less "well known" brands, you have used the words "very smooth" several times--Without further confabulation (is that a word?) let's formulate the final solution:

Approximate size of paper universe is in excess of 50, other variables include, weight, surface texture (here we go with that smooth again!), thickness, optical brighteners, tone (warm vs cold), price per unit of production, availability, longevity, base (e.g baryta, plastic, wood, silk, canvas, silica, cotton, polyester and fiberglass), shelf life and manufacturer's warranty, manufacturer's financial condition, financial condition of the United States, your financial condition, your Bank's financial condition...(sorry I'm still suffering 401K:itis).

That leaves about 500 things taken 15 at a time or 500 factorial divided by 500-15 factorial which unfortunately is a number larger than the current Bailout numbers. May I recommend the following:

Use the Epson for proofing, Print for sale and portfolio work on Harman--They have both a warm and cold tone paper in both matte and gloss--E Voila! Michael Reichman and Brooks Jensen are both using the Harman for their portfolio work.

There now wasn't that easy--You owe me big!  

Utah
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howardm

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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2009, 10:22:00 am »

That 'Improve Your Vocabulary in 30 Days' course is really working out for you!    

photobadger

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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2009, 08:25:40 pm »

By the way atlex.com has even better prices on the paper. I've always had good luck with them.

Insert Standard Disclaimer Here about not working there, having any relationship, ...
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