Help me evaluate p21+ vs ZD vs 5dmk2

[geronimo13]

Hi!

On the expo last weekend i got the chance to test shoot p21+, zd and 5dmk2. Anyone wanna help me evaluate these three against eachother?


Also shot alot with the p65+ and WOW  but way to expensive for me.

If interested i can post some raw files.

[Doug Peterson]

Hi!

On the expo last weekend i got the chance to test shoot p21+, zd and 5dmk2. Anyone wanna help me evaluate these three against eachother?


Also shot alot with the p65+ and WOW  but way to expensive for me.

If interested i can post some raw files.

"All has come before. All will come again."

There will be many people here more than happy to lend advice and experience.

However, for anyone to spend the time to do so you will have to let us know who you are, where you are in life, what kind of photography you do, what kind of photography you might expand into, what your goals are etc.

Asking which is better is like asking "which is better: a revolver, musket, machine gun, or bow and arrow?" We need a problem to solve before we can recommend the solution.

The P21+ and 5DII both have some fantastic positives and some major weaknesses.

Help us help you.

*waits for bad jokes as the forum tries to decide which camera is a bow and arrow and which is a musket*

Doug Peterson,  Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One & Canon Dealer  |  Personal Portfolio

[JDBFreeheel]

Hi!

On the expo last weekend i got the chance to test shoot p21+, zd and 5dmk2. Anyone wanna help me evaluate these three against eachother?


Also shot alot with the p65+ and WOW  but way to expensive for me.

If interested i can post some raw files.

Here are a few links from previous threads re: the ZD back.  There are more if you pour over the list that search for "Mamiya ZD" generates.

*Full Disclosure: I had two different ZD backs which never performed as they should.  Whether they were lemons or indicative of the product line is up for debate.  I have gotten rid of my ZD back and shoot with a Leaf Aptus II back now.*

-Josh

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....mp;hl=Mamiya+ZD

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....mp;hl=Mamiya+ZD

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....mp;hl=Mamiya+ZD

[Easton]

I'd love to see how the P21+ is like against the ZD.

I compared the ZD back with the 5D Mark II and my own personal observations (which is hardly technically accurate) found that out-of-camera images look to be the same. Especially identical when comparing resolution and detail.

However, when I went full-hardcore-photoshop pulling shadows out from the darkness, the ZD images retained an amazing amount more detail. This is especially important for my photographic and retouching style.

The 5D2 also pulls detail from shadows, but along with it was a gobsmackingly load of noise.

However untouched, the two look identical to me. The quality of the mid tones is the same.

Although both resolve shadows and highlights, it's the quality of the pixels at the two extremes that were worlds apart between the ZD and the 5D Mark II.

I can't begin to imagine what a 16-bit (proper) digital back would be like over the ZD.

Hardly a technically accurate comparison but it was just my own personal and amateur testing and observation.

[mosko]

Hi!

On the expo last weekend i got the chance to test shoot p21+, zd and 5dmk2. Anyone wanna help me evaluate these three against eachother?


Also shot alot with the p65+ and WOW  but way to expensive for me.

If interested i can post some raw files.

  I for one,  would love to see raw files.  I have a 5DII, and have been contemplating getting a Mamiya/P21+, mainly because of format, lenses, and
would really like to shoot without AA filter.

 Thanks,

Karen

[geronimo13]

Okej here we go.

Please advise, these images are copyrighted and may not be published without my permission. It is ok to post crops in this thread for evaluating purposes.


4 from each camera. Divided them in to .rar files, open with winrar for example.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6


Uploading as we speak. Ready in 10 mins.

[geronimo13]

I'd love to see how the P21+ is like against the ZD.

I compared the ZD back with the 5D Mark II and my own personal observations (which is hardly technically accurate) found that out-of-camera images look to be the same. Especially identical when comparing resolution and detail.

However, when I went full-hardcore-photoshop pulling shadows out from the darkness, the ZD images retained an amazing amount more detail. This is especially important for my photographic and retouching style.

The 5D2 also pulls detail from shadows, but along with it was a gobsmackingly load of noise.

However untouched, the two look identical to me. The quality of the mid tones is the same.

Although both resolve shadows and highlights, it's the quality of the pixels at the two extremes that were worlds apart between the ZD and the 5D Mark II.

I can't begin to imagine what a 16-bit (proper) digital back would be like over the ZD.

Hardly a technically accurate comparison but it was just my own personal and amateur testing and observation.

Yes at first view 5dmk2 and the ZD look the same. I think the p21+ is superior to both of them.

But there is a great deal on a new ZD here at local camera store. I can get a new ZD for only 3000 US.

Got qouted a great price for the p30+ aswell, did a gig for a retailer and I could get the p30+ for around 9.000 with the phase camera. So i'm torned. But p30+ compared to ZD the p30+ is alot better and i could convince myself i'm buying for the future

[mosko]

Okej here we go.

Please advise, these images are copyrighted and may not be published without my permission. It is ok to post crops in this thread for evaluating purposes.


4 from each camera. Divided them in to .rar files, open with winrar for example.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6


Uploading as we speak. Ready in 10 mins.

Thanks for posting files!  I'm jammed up with work, but will take a look tomorrow.

Karen

[Hoang]

Yes at first view 5dmk2 and the ZD look the same. I think the p21+ is superior to both of them.

But there is a great deal on a new ZD here at local camera store. I can get a new ZD for only 3000 US.

Got qouted a great price for the p30+ aswell, did a gig for a retailer and I could get the p30+ for around 9.000 with the phase camera. So i'm torned. But p30+ compared to ZD the p30+ is alot better and i could convince myself i'm buying for the future

Are you serious? Only $3000 for a mamiya zd? Where is that?

[geronimo13]

Are you serious? Only $3000 for a mamiya zd? Where is that?

At a local shop here in sweden. Want me to pick up one for you?

[Carsten W]

At a local shop here in sweden. Want me to pick up one for you?

How about simply telling people the name of the shop?

[geronimo13]

How about simply telling people the name of the shop?

Yes sorry.

Scand foto Mölndal.

They had the special on the expo last weekend, not sure if they still do but probably.

Webpage:

www.scandinavianphoto.se

[BlasR]

Geronimo,

Why you do not return futura money?
So problem to send the camera, now problem with paypal?

You didn't have problem to take he's money,

now you want money money what do think, everyone is stupid?

I'm getting mad, here.  If I can take a week of, I will fly to take you for the hair in walk you to a place to send the money.

Be honest and send the money back.

I don't know you, and I do not want to know who you R, as I don't know futura,

but when people are no honest, its really  get me mad,  You really don't want me to get more mad.  So right now

Send the money back, you got 33 minutes do so.


BlasR

At a local shop here in sweden. Want me to pick up one for you?

[Carsten W]

Yes sorry.

Scand foto Mölndal.

They had the special on the expo last weekend, not sure if they still do but probably.

Webpage:

www.scandinavianphoto.se

The price of this back:

http://www.scandinavianphoto.se/product/it...spx?iid=6636786

now appears to be:

http://www.google.com/search?q=74000%20sek%20in%20euro

6500 Euro.

[Anders_HK]

Here are a few links from previous threads re: the ZD back.  There are more if you pour over the list that search for "Mamiya ZD" generates.

*Full Disclosure: I had two different ZD backs which never performed as they should.  Whether they were lemons or indicative of the product line is up for debate.  I have gotten rid of my ZD back and shoot with a Leaf Aptus II back now.*

-Josh

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....mp;hl=Mamiya+ZD

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....mp;hl=Mamiya+ZD

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....mp;hl=Mamiya+ZD

Hi,

You left out my now assumably famous thread on 'ZD has Problem'; http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....w=&st=&

That still remains for ALL ZDs or please prove me wrong by making similar testing. That has not been posted yet, thus problem must remain...

; Nothing has been shown yet of that Mamiya Digital has fixed any of this problem in ZD. Thus I still advise against the ZD. I am one of many who have sold their ZDs at loss as you will see if you review many postings and read between the lines. That said, I do believe it would have been correct of Mamiya to have fixed this problem, but regrettably they have not. Instead they continue to sell this what seem faulty product pretending that there was not fault. That is absurd but indeed seem fact. Perhaps they cannot fix the problem, because it seem related also to the hardware implementation, thus would require too much cost to fix it. That said, it is possible that Capture One has been tailored to reduce the effect of the problem... although the problem remains.

I do believe it is WRONG for a  manufacturer to sell a product this way, and to continue to do so. Else I much appreciate Mamiya products. I still have my Mamiya 645 system and enjoy it, now with AFDIII and a Leaf Aptus 65 digital back.

The P21+ mentioned is older technology than P30 and P30+ if I am not misstaking. Do take a look at a refurbished P30 or P30+, also Leaf Aptus 65 which all will blow the ZD and 5D out of the water. Even the Aptus 22 which utilize same identical sensor as ZD will do so, simply because both hardware and firmware wize it was well implemented. However it appear it is slight older tech than the P30 and Aptus 65, thus slight noisier at ISO100/200 and above. My Aptus 65 is not as good at high ISO as a 5DII but will clear blow it away in image quality at lower ISOs. It is simply different tools for different tasks. Yup, the digital backs I mentioned are be more $ than a used ZD or a 5DII, but I sincere either advise to spend more or to go with a 5DII. Also the 5DII is a fine tool, but different from a medium format digital back.

Regards
Anders

[geronimo13]

The price of this back:

http://www.scandinavianphoto.se/product/it...spx?iid=6636786

now appears to be:

http://www.google.com/search?q=74000%20sek%20in%20euro

6500 Euro.

Last weekend the had three Mamiya ZD cameras for around 3000$ not the back. Maybe they sold out as i cant find the ZD kamera on their site anymore.

[geronimo13]

Hi,

You left out my now assumably famous thread on 'ZD has Problem'; http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....w=&st=&

That still remains for ALL ZDs or please prove me wrong by making similar testing. That has not been posted yet, thus problem must remain...

; Nothing has been shown yet of that Mamiya Digital has fixed any of this problem in ZD. Thus I still advise against the ZD. I am one of many who have sold their ZDs at loss as you will see if you review many postings and read between the lines. That said, I do believe it would have been correct of Mamiya to have fixed this problem, but regrettably they have not. Instead they continue to sell this what seem faulty product pretending that there was not fault. That is absurd but indeed seem fact. Perhaps they cannot fix the problem, because it seem related also to the hardware implementation, thus would require too much cost to fix it. That said, it is possible that Capture One has been tailored to reduce the effect of the problem... although the problem remains.

I do believe it is WRONG for a  manufacturer to sell a product this way, and to continue to do so. Else I much appreciate Mamiya products. I still have my Mamiya 645 system and enjoy it, now with AFDIII and a Leaf Aptus 65 digital back.

The P21+ mentioned is older technology than P30 and P30+ if I am not misstaking. Do take a look at a refurbished P30 or P30+, also Leaf Aptus 65 which all will blow the ZD and 5D out of the water. Even the Aptus 22 which utilize same identical sensor as ZD will do so, simply because both hardware and firmware wize it was well implemented. However it appear it is slight older tech than the P30 and Aptus 65, thus slight noisier at ISO100/200 and above. My Aptus 65 is not as good at high ISO as a 5DII but will clear blow it away in image quality at lower ISOs. It is simply different tools for different tasks. Yup, the digital backs I mentioned are be more $ than a used ZD or a 5DII, but I sincere either advise to spend more or to go with a 5DII. Also the 5DII is a fine tool, but different from a medium format digital back.

Regards
Anders

Okej great. Yes leaning towards p30+ as that doesn't differ from the p21+ as much. I've tested one out and it is a great back, really love the workflow.

[lisa_r]

Do you care to tell us where you are getting this P30+ for $9000?
I will fly over to pick one up for that price.
(I as quoted $13,000 for a USED one from Digital Transitions in NY.)

[ziocan]

Do you care to tell us where you are getting this P30+ for $9000?
I will fly over to pick one up for that price.
(I as quoted $13,000 for a USED one from Digital Transitions in NY.)

Just the back? or also the body for 13K?

[eronald]

Hi,

 I have a P45+, and a  Nikon D3x. I just spent the afternoon with a 5DII.

 The digital back guys now have a problem. They're not blowing away the dSLR competition. To the contrary - the new dSLRs are definitely catching up with them.

Edmund  

Hi,


The P21+ mentioned is older technology than P30 and P30+ if I am not misstaking. Do take a look at a refurbished P30 or P30+, also Leaf Aptus 65 which all will blow the ZD and 5D out of the water. Even the Aptus 22 which utilize same identical sensor as ZD will do so, simply because both hardware and firmware wize it was well implemented. However it appear it is slight older tech than the P30 and Aptus 65, thus slight noisier at ISO100/200 and above. My Aptus 65 is not as good at high ISO as a 5DII but will clear blow it away in image quality at lower ISOs. It is simply different tools for different tasks. Yup, the digital backs I mentioned are be more $ than a used ZD or a 5DII, but I sincere either advise to spend more or to go with a 5DII. Also the 5DII is a fine tool, but different from a medium format digital back.

Regards
Anders